4 ms·

The SNR of this saga is very low. A speck of something floating under a magnetic field on a blurry video is not proof of room temperature superconductivity. We'

The SNR of this saga is very low. A speck of something floating under a magnetic field on a blurry video is not proof of room temperature superconductivity. We've seen memes, jokes, shitposting, bravado, Soviet fan fiction, play-by-play updates from non-SMEs cooking stuff under improvised conditions. No actual resistance measurement of LK-99 with a 4 point probe. If this is real, then discoverers found this in 1999, apparently couldn't synthesize with good yield, couldn't analyze rigorously, sat on the discovery for 24 years, were recently rushed to publish half-baked papers, and are now silent. None of this inspires confidence. LK-99 could hypothetically be the real deal, and I want to believe, but I'm patiently waiting for people who actually know what they're doing to offer experimental evidence.

haldujai 3y ago
Adding on to that: the researchers are from a private corporation that falsely claimed partnerships with several South Korean enterprises and universities which have all disavowed any connection, the "Quantum Energy Research Centre" website has gone private[edit: not suspicious as described in comments below] and the co-authors are apparently feuding over project direction with one of them since removed from the paper. I know nothing about the subject matter but as a curious layperson I've been surprised a pre-print is being taken so seriously with this background and have assumed people much smarter than me interpret the physics as plausible.
- lifthrasiir 3y ago
  > the "Quantum Energy Research Centre" website has gone private In this particular case however, the website repeatedly hit the daily traffic quota before the closure. So I guess it would be no surprise that the hosting provider [1] forced them to close the website. [1] The website itself was probably hosted by https://imweb.me/ https://imweb.me/ (the parking page also supports this observation---the asset path and the admin page path matches).
  - haldujai 3y ago
    Interesting, so that's the expected parking page for such a situation? I have no idea how web hosting works in SK and was going off this article, my interpretation was that this was changed after the traffic warning hence why I assumed malice: While the company’s website previously displayed a message that it has been blocked due to excessive traffic, it has now been shut down altogether as of Thursday with a message saying that it is “under construction." I guess that's one less red flag. https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2023/08/03/business/tech/Korea-Quantum-Energy-Research-Centre-superconductor/20230803184638075.html https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2023/08/03/business/tec... Edit: Is the Safari translation of https://imweb.me/price https://imweb.me/price correct in saying unlimited traffic is 24,000 won ($18 USD) per month? If so, I'll add back that a private company that has discovered a room-temperature superconductor but is skimping out on $18/mo for web hosting does not inspire confidence.
    - lifthrasiir 3y ago
      To make my point concrete, compare these 3 Wayback Machine captures: 1. https://web.archive.org/web/20230730033806/https://qcentre.co.kr/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230730033806/https://qcentre.c... when it was still available. 2. https://web.archive.org/web/20230802204310/https://qcentre.co.kr/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230802204310/https://qcentre.c... when it hit the quota. The title and texts roughly translate to: "The access was denied due to the excessive traffic" and "The website you've visited reached the agreed daily traffic limit and thus is automatically made unavailable now. You can connect again when the limit resets on 10 AM [UTC+9]. Please upgrade the version if the traffic repeatedly hits its quota." 3. https://web.archive.org/web/20230805041306/https://qcentre.co.kr/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230805041306/https://qcentre.c... when it was closed down. All three pages are probably from imweb's own solutions, given its assets and links. So there is no dedicated server or virtual machine instance, everything is on whim of the provider. > Is the Safari translation of https://imweb.me/price https://imweb.me/price correct in saying unlimited traffic is 24,000 won ($18 USD) per month? Yes, but you need to read the asterisk: "But atypically large number of connections or DDoS attacks may be limited for the optimal operation of system." It is very frequent that this unstated "limit" is much lower than expected for Korean hosting providers.
culebron21 3y ago
Yes, that's what caught my attention too: no actual conductivity measurement, but only magnetic levitation.
- Double_a_92 3y ago
  Because the levitation is a much better proof. It can only levitate if the resistance is really exactly 0. While measuring it somehow always adds errors, because the probes themselves have resistance. And then you can't be sure if it's 0 or just really low.
  - foven 3y ago
    There are measurement configurations that can be used to eliminate contact resistance (such as a van der Pauw measurement). Resistance, and electrical measurement in general, is the true proof - the Meissner effect is secondary and more confusing as, since this paper shows, a small ferromagnetic phase can give rise to the same effects.
    - ajnin 3y ago
      You can't completely eliminate contact resistance, and all instruments have a noise floor, so electrical measurements don't constitute "true proof", they are an element of proof among others. The Meissner effect is perfect diamagnetism which can cause levitation and is not like ferromagnetism which only can allow a piece of material to stand up to align itself with field lines (and which is what we've seen so far).
srslack 3y ago
>No actual resistance measurement of LK-99 with a 4 point probe. You are misinformed. It's in the original Korean paper.
srslack 3y ago
>No actual resistance measurement of LK-99 with a 4 point probe. https://postimg.cc/TyYbv284 https://postimg.cc/TyYbv284 http://journal.kci.go.kr/jkcgct/archive/articleView?artiId=ART002955269 http://journal.kci.go.kr/jkcgct/archive/articleView?artiId=A... Machine translated: https://www.docdroid.net/UiUrs8c/kci-fi002955269-1-pdf https://www.docdroid.net/UiUrs8c/kci-fi002955269-1-pdf Interview: https://hackmd.io/@sanxiyn/seize-interview https://hackmd.io/@sanxiyn/seize-interview
dcow 3y ago
Man I got so many down votes last week for pointing out that like 6 attempts have failed to replicate this miracle thing that a fraudulent paper describes that’s supposedly existed for 24 years now. My point was simply that regardless of whether some combination of the elements described actually exists with roughly the properties described, we don’t know how to make it and neither do the people who published the paper. It should be more clear than ever, now, that there are significant gaps in our understanding of whatever LK-99 is.

haldujai 3y ago

Adding on to that: the researchers are from a private corporation that falsely claimed partnerships with several South Korean enterprises and universities which have all disavowed any connection, the "Quantum Energy Research Centre" website has gone private[edit: not suspicious as described in comments below] and the co-authors are apparently feuding over project direction with one of them since removed from the paper. I know nothing about the subject matter but as a curious layperson I've been surprised a pre-print is being taken so seriously with this background and have assumed people much smarter than me interpret the physics as plausible.

lifthrasiir 3y ago
> the "Quantum Energy Research Centre" website has gone private In this particular case however, the website repeatedly hit the daily traffic quota before the closure. So I guess it would be no surprise that the hosting provider [1] forced them to close the website. [1] The website itself was probably hosted by https://imweb.me/ https://imweb.me/ (the parking page also supports this observation---the asset path and the admin page path matches).
- haldujai 3y ago
  Interesting, so that's the expected parking page for such a situation? I have no idea how web hosting works in SK and was going off this article, my interpretation was that this was changed after the traffic warning hence why I assumed malice: While the company’s website previously displayed a message that it has been blocked due to excessive traffic, it has now been shut down altogether as of Thursday with a message saying that it is “under construction." I guess that's one less red flag. https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2023/08/03/business/tech/Korea-Quantum-Energy-Research-Centre-superconductor/20230803184638075.html https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2023/08/03/business/tec... Edit: Is the Safari translation of https://imweb.me/price https://imweb.me/price correct in saying unlimited traffic is 24,000 won ($18 USD) per month? If so, I'll add back that a private company that has discovered a room-temperature superconductor but is skimping out on $18/mo for web hosting does not inspire confidence.
  - lifthrasiir 3y ago
    To make my point concrete, compare these 3 Wayback Machine captures: 1. https://web.archive.org/web/20230730033806/https://qcentre.co.kr/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230730033806/https://qcentre.c... when it was still available. 2. https://web.archive.org/web/20230802204310/https://qcentre.co.kr/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230802204310/https://qcentre.c... when it hit the quota. The title and texts roughly translate to: "The access was denied due to the excessive traffic" and "The website you've visited reached the agreed daily traffic limit and thus is automatically made unavailable now. You can connect again when the limit resets on 10 AM [UTC+9]. Please upgrade the version if the traffic repeatedly hits its quota." 3. https://web.archive.org/web/20230805041306/https://qcentre.co.kr/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230805041306/https://qcentre.c... when it was closed down. All three pages are probably from imweb's own solutions, given its assets and links. So there is no dedicated server or virtual machine instance, everything is on whim of the provider. > Is the Safari translation of https://imweb.me/price https://imweb.me/price correct in saying unlimited traffic is 24,000 won ($18 USD) per month? Yes, but you need to read the asterisk: "But atypically large number of connections or DDoS attacks may be limited for the optimal operation of system." It is very frequent that this unstated "limit" is much lower than expected for Korean hosting providers.

culebron21 3y ago

Yes, that's what caught my attention too: no actual conductivity measurement, but only magnetic levitation.

Double_a_92 3y ago
Because the levitation is a much better proof. It can only levitate if the resistance is really exactly 0. While measuring it somehow always adds errors, because the probes themselves have resistance. And then you can't be sure if it's 0 or just really low.
- foven 3y ago
  There are measurement configurations that can be used to eliminate contact resistance (such as a van der Pauw measurement). Resistance, and electrical measurement in general, is the true proof - the Meissner effect is secondary and more confusing as, since this paper shows, a small ferromagnetic phase can give rise to the same effects.
  - ajnin 3y ago
    You can't completely eliminate contact resistance, and all instruments have a noise floor, so electrical measurements don't constitute "true proof", they are an element of proof among others. The Meissner effect is perfect diamagnetism which can cause levitation and is not like ferromagnetism which only can allow a piece of material to stand up to align itself with field lines (and which is what we've seen so far).

srslack 3y ago

>No actual resistance measurement of LK-99 with a 4 point probe. You are misinformed. It's in the original Korean paper.

srslack 3y ago

>No actual resistance measurement of LK-99 with a 4 point probe. https://postimg.cc/TyYbv284 https://postimg.cc/TyYbv284 http://journal.kci.go.kr/jkcgct/archive/articleView?artiId=ART002955269 http://journal.kci.go.kr/jkcgct/archive/articleView?artiId=A... Machine translated: https://www.docdroid.net/UiUrs8c/kci-fi002955269-1-pdf https://www.docdroid.net/UiUrs8c/kci-fi002955269-1-pdf Interview: https://hackmd.io/@sanxiyn/seize-interview https://hackmd.io/@sanxiyn/seize-interview

dcow 3y ago

Man I got so many down votes last week for pointing out that like 6 attempts have failed to replicate this miracle thing that a fraudulent paper describes that’s supposedly existed for 24 years now. My point was simply that regardless of whether some combination of the elements described actually exists with roughly the properties described, we don’t know how to make it and neither do the people who published the paper. It should be more clear than ever, now, that there are significant gaps in our understanding of whatever LK-99 is.