4 ms·

While I agree that we should be sanctioning Russia, I think a carve-out should be made for things like commercial aviation parts. Eventually there will be an ac

While I agree that we should be sanctioning Russia, I think a carve-out should be made for things like commercial aviation parts. Eventually there will be an accident as a result of parts that can't be replaced, we don't need more lives lost to this war.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> we don't need more lives lost to this war. The supply of massive amounts of lethal aid suggests a policy decision that that’s exactly what we need, in the immediate term. (We don’t, OTOH, need civilian lives lost, but there is no such things as non-dual-use aircraft components.) Also, Russia could just not fly planes if they aren’t safe.
TillE 3y ago
Civil aviation is not a life-or-death necessity. This is precisely the purpose of sanctions.
dgudkov 3y ago
The vast majority of West-built planes that are currently being operated in Russia are stolen from their owners (they were leased and then Russia simply didn't return the planes when the lease was ceased due to the war). Are you proposing to permit sending parts to repair stolen planes?
- gre 3y ago
  "The United States and Western allies have seized more than $300 billion in Russian central bank foreign currency assets frozen by sanctions." Really dumb way to doom the US dollar and the world banking system. I guess Russia took a few planes as consolation? https://www.reuters.com/world/yellen-says-legal-obstacles-remain-seizure-russian-assets-aid-ukraine-2023-02-27/ https://www.reuters.com/world/yellen-says-legal-obstacles-re...
  - wiseowise 3y ago
    Because West just decided to do it out of the blue and not in response to full scale invasion of the biggest country in Europe.
resolutebat 3y ago
Unfortunately, there's plenty of precedent both in terms of sanctions and lives lost in Iran, which is a flying junkyard of ancient planes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iranian_aviation_accidents_and_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iranian_aviation_accid... For example, if you'd like to fly an Airbus A300 (first flight 1972), the only ones left in passenger operation are in Iran.
steveBK123 3y ago
Russians could stop flying to take vacation in occupied Crimea beachfront instead
- kgeist 3y ago
  There are places in Russia proper which are only reachable by plane due to lack of roads.
  - attentive 3y ago
    Just a thought, but may be they shouldn't have started a war of invasion then. Not stealing western planes would be good too.
    - kgeist 3y ago
      Who are "they"? Civilians who have to fly by plane because they have no other option?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - steveBK123 3y ago
        The majority flying Aeroflot at this point are inherently "elite" or "elite-adjacent". Making their life less convenient is literally the point of sanctions.
        kgeist 3y ago
        Uhm, I'd say those who fly Aeroflot are middle-class. You're not elite if you fly Aeroflot. Just not poor.
  - fcatalan 3y ago
    Get the dudes digging trenches in front of Crimea to build those roads instead
sesuximo 3y ago
If the options are: - have sanctions, more Russians die, and fewer Ukrainians die because the war ends sooner - the opposite Then your suggestion seems to value Russian lives over Ukrainian ones.
nvy 3y ago
>Eventually there will be an accident as a result of parts that can't be replaced, we don't need more lives lost to this war. Such an accident would solely be the fault of the (well known) piss-poor safety programs in Russia. They have the option to just, you know, not fly their Boeings and Airbuses. There's no NATO brainwashing machine forcing them. I can't get myself into a headspace where any amount of mental gymnastics is going to somehow make an airline crash the fault of the sanctions. Can you elaborate on your thought process? I'm genuinely mystified.
jojobas 3y ago
These planes have been stolen, remember? They were under lease and Russia just said "we're keeping them" because you've all been mean to us. Supplying them with parts for stolen place is next level of cuckoldry.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> we don't need more lives lost to this war. The supply of massive amounts of lethal aid suggests a policy decision that that’s exactly what we need, in the immediate term. (We don’t, OTOH, need civilian lives lost, but there is no such things as non-dual-use aircraft components.) Also, Russia could just not fly planes if they aren’t safe.

TillE 3y ago

Civil aviation is not a life-or-death necessity. This is precisely the purpose of sanctions.

dgudkov 3y ago

The vast majority of West-built planes that are currently being operated in Russia are stolen from their owners (they were leased and then Russia simply didn't return the planes when the lease was ceased due to the war). Are you proposing to permit sending parts to repair stolen planes?

gre 3y ago
"The United States and Western allies have seized more than $300 billion in Russian central bank foreign currency assets frozen by sanctions." Really dumb way to doom the US dollar and the world banking system. I guess Russia took a few planes as consolation? https://www.reuters.com/world/yellen-says-legal-obstacles-remain-seizure-russian-assets-aid-ukraine-2023-02-27/ https://www.reuters.com/world/yellen-says-legal-obstacles-re...
- wiseowise 3y ago
  Because West just decided to do it out of the blue and not in response to full scale invasion of the biggest country in Europe.

resolutebat 3y ago

Unfortunately, there's plenty of precedent both in terms of sanctions and lives lost in Iran, which is a flying junkyard of ancient planes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iranian_aviation_accidents_and_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iranian_aviation_accid... For example, if you'd like to fly an Airbus A300 (first flight 1972), the only ones left in passenger operation are in Iran.

steveBK123 3y ago

Russians could stop flying to take vacation in occupied Crimea beachfront instead

kgeist 3y ago
There are places in Russia proper which are only reachable by plane due to lack of roads.
- attentive 3y ago
  Just a thought, but may be they shouldn't have started a war of invasion then. Not stealing western planes would be good too.
  - kgeist 3y ago
    Who are "they"? Civilians who have to fly by plane because they have no other option?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - steveBK123 3y ago
      The majority flying Aeroflot at this point are inherently "elite" or "elite-adjacent". Making their life less convenient is literally the point of sanctions.
      - kgeist 3y ago
        Uhm, I'd say those who fly Aeroflot are middle-class. You're not elite if you fly Aeroflot. Just not poor.
- fcatalan 3y ago
  Get the dudes digging trenches in front of Crimea to build those roads instead

sesuximo 3y ago

If the options are: - have sanctions, more Russians die, and fewer Ukrainians die because the war ends sooner - the opposite Then your suggestion seems to value Russian lives over Ukrainian ones.

nvy 3y ago

>Eventually there will be an accident as a result of parts that can't be replaced, we don't need more lives lost to this war. Such an accident would solely be the fault of the (well known) piss-poor safety programs in Russia. They have the option to just, you know, not fly their Boeings and Airbuses. There's no NATO brainwashing machine forcing them. I can't get myself into a headspace where any amount of mental gymnastics is going to somehow make an airline crash the fault of the sanctions. Can you elaborate on your thought process? I'm genuinely mystified.

jojobas 3y ago

These planes have been stolen, remember? They were under lease and Russia just said "we're keeping them" because you've all been mean to us. Supplying them with parts for stolen place is next level of cuckoldry.