3 ms·

> A 3/4-ton pickup vs your toyota camry is MAYBE a 2x increase in damage to the road. Your source states that relative road damage between two vehicles is the

> A 3/4-ton pickup vs your toyota camry is MAYBE a 2x increase in damage to the road. Your source states that relative road damage between two vehicles is the forth power of the ratio of their weights. The base curb weight of a Ford F-150 is in the vicinity of 4,600lbs. The base curbs weight of a Toyota Camry is in the vicinity of 3,500lbs. So the damage ratio is (46/35)^4 = ~3. The Toyota Camry used to be a small car, but it isn't anymore. The base curb weight of a Ford Fiesta is in the vicinity of 2,500lbs. So the damage ratio between a Toyota Camry and a Ford Fiesta is (35/25)^4 = ~3.8, and between a Ford F-150 and a Ford Fiesta is (46/25)^4 = ~11.5. So a Toyota Camry, being somewhat of a behemoth, should be paying on the order of 3.8x the amount of road tax as a Ford Fiesta.

ProfessorLayton 3y ago
Even so, unless we're charging the average semi truck 2500x more road tax, and vehicles of that weigh class which cause the overwhelming majority of wear, the roads will continue to be as abysmal as they currently are.
- taeric 3y ago
  I confess I assume that we do charge trucks an absurdly larger amount of money? Is why they have weigh stations between states?
  - tw04 3y ago
    That depends on what you consider "absurdly larger" - the fee is between $1,000-$2,000 depending on the state. In some states that's not much more than you'd be paying for a nice luxury car or large SUV. https://www.truckinfo.net/research/license-costs-by-state https://www.truckinfo.net/research/license-costs-by-state
    - taeric 3y ago
      I confess I had a mistaken thought that weigh stations were akin to toll booths. That is, that fees were levied based on the weight. I can think of several problems with that thought, taking it longer, of course. :(
      - tw04 3y ago
        I'm FAR from an expert, but you aren't totally misguided. That was the original intent once upon a time, now it's more about safety. They do weigh trucks to ensure they aren't going to destroy a bridge or damage roads if they're overweight for their route - but they're primarily checking a driver's log book to ensure they aren't over hours, the truck passes safety inspections, the driver isn't transporting illicit goods, etc.
  - ProfessorLayton 3y ago
    I won't presume that I know how much we're taxing semis et al., but it's clear by the road wear that it's not enough, and most of the damage is not caused by everyday drivers. Heavy vehicles also include garbage trucks, delivery trucks, and even busses which benefit everyone. Cars have only been widely adopted for about 100 years, and it's not clear that current trends can't be sustained for another 100.
    - User23 3y ago
      The public rightfully bears much of the burden for truck wear and tear because the trucks aren’t driving around for fun, they’re bringing goods and the public wants things like stocked supermarkets. If we taxed trucks at actual cost we’d either have no deliveries or an extremely regressive cost schema due to trucking companies passing on the expense.
  - Wildliferanger 3y ago
    Also to prevent overweight unsafe loading, doing trafic safty inspections, smuggling prevention, and checking cargo especially to prevent cross border invasive species.
    - taeric 3y ago
      Yeah, I mostly knew these other reasons were a thing. I had not realized they were the only reason. I guess I was thinking of them more like a port of entry between states and assumed taxes were involved.
tzs 3y ago
> Your source states that relative road damage between two vehicles is the forth power of the ratio of their weights. I wonder if that only works for weights that are not too low and not too high? For example a typical Eastern grey squirrel weighs around 50 times as much as a typical mouse, and a typical chicken weighs about 7 times as much as a squirrel. Does a squirrel crossing a modern highway really cause over 6 million times as much damage as a mouse, and does a chicken crossing the road really cause 2400 times as much damage as a squirrel?

ProfessorLayton 3y ago

Even so, unless we're charging the average semi truck 2500x more road tax, and vehicles of that weigh class which cause the overwhelming majority of wear, the roads will continue to be as abysmal as they currently are.

taeric 3y ago
I confess I assume that we do charge trucks an absurdly larger amount of money? Is why they have weigh stations between states?
- tw04 3y ago
  That depends on what you consider "absurdly larger" - the fee is between $1,000-$2,000 depending on the state. In some states that's not much more than you'd be paying for a nice luxury car or large SUV. https://www.truckinfo.net/research/license-costs-by-state https://www.truckinfo.net/research/license-costs-by-state
  - taeric 3y ago
    I confess I had a mistaken thought that weigh stations were akin to toll booths. That is, that fees were levied based on the weight. I can think of several problems with that thought, taking it longer, of course. :(
    - tw04 3y ago
      I'm FAR from an expert, but you aren't totally misguided. That was the original intent once upon a time, now it's more about safety. They do weigh trucks to ensure they aren't going to destroy a bridge or damage roads if they're overweight for their route - but they're primarily checking a driver's log book to ensure they aren't over hours, the truck passes safety inspections, the driver isn't transporting illicit goods, etc.
- ProfessorLayton 3y ago
  I won't presume that I know how much we're taxing semis et al., but it's clear by the road wear that it's not enough, and most of the damage is not caused by everyday drivers. Heavy vehicles also include garbage trucks, delivery trucks, and even busses which benefit everyone. Cars have only been widely adopted for about 100 years, and it's not clear that current trends can't be sustained for another 100.
  - User23 3y ago
    The public rightfully bears much of the burden for truck wear and tear because the trucks aren’t driving around for fun, they’re bringing goods and the public wants things like stocked supermarkets. If we taxed trucks at actual cost we’d either have no deliveries or an extremely regressive cost schema due to trucking companies passing on the expense.
- Wildliferanger 3y ago
  Also to prevent overweight unsafe loading, doing trafic safty inspections, smuggling prevention, and checking cargo especially to prevent cross border invasive species.
  - taeric 3y ago
    Yeah, I mostly knew these other reasons were a thing. I had not realized they were the only reason. I guess I was thinking of them more like a port of entry between states and assumed taxes were involved.

tzs 3y ago

> Your source states that relative road damage between two vehicles is the forth power of the ratio of their weights. I wonder if that only works for weights that are not too low and not too high? For example a typical Eastern grey squirrel weighs around 50 times as much as a typical mouse, and a typical chicken weighs about 7 times as much as a squirrel. Does a squirrel crossing a modern highway really cause over 6 million times as much damage as a mouse, and does a chicken crossing the road really cause 2400 times as much damage as a squirrel?