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People hating telemetry just because it is telemetry are tiring as hell. Blame telemetry for collection of unreasonable stuff, not for collecting data that is
by hardware2win 3y ago
People hating telemetry just because it is telemetry are tiring as hell.
Blame telemetry for collection of unreasonable stuff, not for collecting data that is valuable for software improvement and doesnt violate privacy.
- pdntspa 3y ago> doesnt violate privacy. And who is making that determination? You? Because all data going out of my system without my explicit and freely-given consent is a violation of my privacy.
- gavinhoward 3y agoCollecting website categorization is not "valuable for software improvement" and certainly does "violate privacy."
- hardware2win 3y agoI didnt say it is. Just arguing against hate for all telemetry
- gavinhoward 3y agoShow me one example where telemetry made software better.
- hardware2win 3y agoWhy would I have to? Concept is solid and stays on its own.
- gavinhoward 3y agoIf the concept has had no benefits, then it is not solid and does not stay on its own. Especially if you cannot think of a single example.
- hardware2win 3y agoI do not follow OSS projects and their decision making processes in order to provide links.
- JohnFen 3y agoTelemetry is wrong if it's happening without my informed consent. What data is being collected doesn't affect that. If you're collecting data about me, my machine, or my use of my machine without my informed consent, you are spying.
- hardware2win 3y ago>If you're collecting data about me, my machine, or my use of my machine without my informed consent, you are spying. What if I collect data about the way you use my software? As a dev im using telemetry to provide better product for my users
- JohnFen 3y ago> What if I collect data about the way you use my software? That's collecting data about me, my machine, or my use of my machine. If you aren't getting people's informed consent before you do this, you're spying. If you have consent, then that's people sharing data with you and isn't spying. > As a dev im using telemetry to provide better product for my users Cool. I'm not saying you shouldn't. I'm just saying that you should ask first.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- hardware2win 3y agoThis is not spying. The purpose of spying is to gain advantage over e.g enemies. There is no good faith. The purpose of telemetry is to collect some data about how my product is used in order to make it better. Also telemetry is documented, so it is no secret, but it is just that users dont give a shit. Meanwhile spy tries to be undisclosed as long as possible. Intention makes difference
- JohnFen 3y ago> There is no good faith. We in the software industry have already burned that bridge. There's been so much abuse for so long that there can be no reasonable assumption of good faith. Trust now has to be proactively earned. > Intention makes difference I disagree. If some guy decided to follow you around and write down every place you go and when you go there, wouldn't you say he's spying on you? Even if he has no ill intent, you can clearly see him doing it, and he literally does nothing with the data he records? "Spying" is when you're collecting personal data without consent. What that data specifically is and what purpose it's to be put to don't enter into it. > Also telemetry is documented, so it is no secret An activity doesn't have to be secret to be spying. And sometimes telemetry is documented, but certainly not always. And often, even when it is, that "documentation" is buried and is hard to find. But regardless, simply documenting a thing is not equivalent to getting consent for the thing. Think of it this way... why is there so much resistance to getting consent to collect telemetry data? The most common answer I've seen to that question (from the pro-telemetry camp) is "because if we give people a choice, too many will decline to provide telemetry". Which means that they know that lots people don't want this data collected, but want it so badly that they don't care. How in the world is that not spying on people?
- netbioserror 3y agoPeople defending telemetry just because they deem it "reasonable" are tiring as hell. Collecting the categories of websites I visit violates my privacy, full stop, end of discussion.
- hardware2win 3y agoSo did you just agree with me?
- netbioserror 3y agoDepends on your definition of "reasonable".
- dogleash 3y agoThere are so many things collecting telemetry, nobody has the capacity to understand the data-points and business use case of every piece of software they interact with. There are two practical options: 1) Roll over 2) Reject as much as possible
- yoyohello13 3y agoBased on the state of Microsoft software these days, I don’t think telemetry is as useful as developers think it is.
- yomlica8 3y agoIt is probably used to confirm how effective dark patterns are at tricking people into do things they don't want to do.
- prmoustache 3y agoThe thing is separately most telemetry seems reasonnable. But if you let them all activated you end up with a computer that connect to hundredth of remote hosts constantly.
- Sohcahtoa82 3y agoI will agree that there is some telemetry data that can be useful for the developers. People developing a display driver might want to collect statistics on what resolutions and refresh rates people are using so they can optimize their test setups for the most common setups. They might want to know what games people are playing so they can optimize performance in those games. But why does a display driver need to know the categories of websites I visit? They have no need for that.