3 ms·

Ancient DNA reveals the living descendants of enslaved people through 23andMe

12 points by LinuxBender 3y ago

sneed_chucker 3y ago
> “Each time we are able to find an enslaved ancestor, we are defeating the purpose of slavery. The purpose of slavery was to rob us of that information,” says Henry Louis Gates Jr I mean was it really? Wasn't the purpose of slavery to get free labor out of people?
- soligern 3y ago
  It was but robbing slaves of information just made that easier to achieve.
22c 3y ago
I'm not sure if virtue signalling is the right word but a few years ago it became a bit of a joke as people would claim they were 0.3% Cherokee in order to garner sympathy. If someone feels deeply connected to the land or really enjoys drinking green beer on St. Patrick's day, I don't feel like they should have to justify those passions to themselves or others by taking a DNA test. While this is an interesting historical endeavour, I can't help but think 23andMe is essentially catering for those kinds of people who want some sort of present day sympathy or understanding based on what 23andMe says might have happened to a distant ancestor.
- astrange 3y ago
  That didn't "become a joke a few years ago", you just noticed that every white person in Oklahoma thinks they're part Cherokee because their parents told them they were. This was a pretty reasonable belief until genetics tests came out. Why not trust your parents? Families being upset when this particular thing gets disproven comes up all the time in genetics forums. It happens almost as often as discovering someone's dad isn't their real dad.
  - 22c 3y ago
    I agree that joke is perhaps the wrong word, but I saw it as the topic of a few memes relating to ancestry. DNA is also only part of the story when it comes to ancenstry, I'd argue it's probably the least important part unless you're talking about physical features or genetic disposition. I can see it being entirely possible that a great grandparent grew up on a reservation, learned all the customs etc. but was not born of native American parents. As you mention as well, being adopted etc. isn't uncommon. It doesn't mean you can't identify strongly with the culture of your parents just because you didn't get any of their genes.
    - astrange 3y ago
      > I can see it being entirely possible that a great grandparent grew up on a reservation, learned all the customs etc. but was not born of native American parents. In this case they almost universally just made it up. (Specifically it's usually about a "Cherokee princess", though that might be a stereotype. It's never a different tribe though, just Cherokee.) In some cases it turns out their ancestors were part black and covered this up by claiming to be native though. > As you mention as well, being adopted etc. isn't uncommon. Oh, I'm talking about adultery.
greymalik 3y ago
250 years is “ancient”?
Hizonner 3y ago
I think 23andMe has separate opt-ins for geneaology and scientific research. And I think this is probably a lot closer to what users think of as "geneaology" than what users think of as "scientific research" at the time they opt in. > The purpose of slavery was to rob us of that information I'm pretty sure the purpose of slavery was to extract the maximum possible amount of usually miserable and often dangerous labor from people, regardless of their lack of consent, and without having to pay them or have any consideration whatsoever for them, in the labor or in any other part of their lives. And maybe secondarily to feed somebody's sense of racial superiority, although I suspect that was more an excuse than a goal. There's something disrespectful about retconning that to be about your curiosity 150 years later.
- soligern 3y ago
  In order to achieve the two goals you mentioned it was tremendously useful for the enslavers to wipe any sort of ancestral information from the diaspora. So the statement is not untrue. It’s part of the same mentality that prevented slaves from getting an education or information about the outside world in general.
  - Hizonner 3y ago
    That would mean that slavery was the purpose of denying them the information, not the other way around. Nobody said or thought "let's enslave these people in order to deny them information about their ancestry" or "let's enslave persons of African descent in order to keep them ignorant". The chain of purposes is "I don't want to do this shit work, nor do I want to pay anybody else to do it" therefore "I'll force somebody else to do it for free" therefore "I'll keep them as ignorant as possible to make it harder for them to resist".

12 points by LinuxBender 3y ago

> “Each time we are able to find an enslaved ancestor, we are defeating the purpose of slavery. The purpose of slavery was to rob us of that information,” says Henry Louis Gates Jr I mean was it really? Wasn't the purpose of slavery to get free labor out of people?

soligern 3y ago
It was but robbing slaves of information just made that easier to achieve.

22c 3y ago

I'm not sure if virtue signalling is the right word but a few years ago it became a bit of a joke as people would claim they were 0.3% Cherokee in order to garner sympathy. If someone feels deeply connected to the land or really enjoys drinking green beer on St. Patrick's day, I don't feel like they should have to justify those passions to themselves or others by taking a DNA test. While this is an interesting historical endeavour, I can't help but think 23andMe is essentially catering for those kinds of people who want some sort of present day sympathy or understanding based on what 23andMe says might have happened to a distant ancestor.

astrange 3y ago
That didn't "become a joke a few years ago", you just noticed that every white person in Oklahoma thinks they're part Cherokee because their parents told them they were. This was a pretty reasonable belief until genetics tests came out. Why not trust your parents? Families being upset when this particular thing gets disproven comes up all the time in genetics forums. It happens almost as often as discovering someone's dad isn't their real dad.
- 22c 3y ago
  I agree that joke is perhaps the wrong word, but I saw it as the topic of a few memes relating to ancestry. DNA is also only part of the story when it comes to ancenstry, I'd argue it's probably the least important part unless you're talking about physical features or genetic disposition. I can see it being entirely possible that a great grandparent grew up on a reservation, learned all the customs etc. but was not born of native American parents. As you mention as well, being adopted etc. isn't uncommon. It doesn't mean you can't identify strongly with the culture of your parents just because you didn't get any of their genes.
  - astrange 3y ago
    > I can see it being entirely possible that a great grandparent grew up on a reservation, learned all the customs etc. but was not born of native American parents. In this case they almost universally just made it up. (Specifically it's usually about a "Cherokee princess", though that might be a stereotype. It's never a different tribe though, just Cherokee.) In some cases it turns out their ancestors were part black and covered this up by claiming to be native though. > As you mention as well, being adopted etc. isn't uncommon. Oh, I'm talking about adultery.

greymalik 3y ago

250 years is “ancient”?

Hizonner 3y ago

I think 23andMe has separate opt-ins for geneaology and scientific research. And I think this is probably a lot closer to what users think of as "geneaology" than what users think of as "scientific research" at the time they opt in. > The purpose of slavery was to rob us of that information I'm pretty sure the purpose of slavery was to extract the maximum possible amount of usually miserable and often dangerous labor from people, regardless of their lack of consent, and without having to pay them or have any consideration whatsoever for them, in the labor or in any other part of their lives. And maybe secondarily to feed somebody's sense of racial superiority, although I suspect that was more an excuse than a goal. There's something disrespectful about retconning that to be about your curiosity 150 years later.

soligern 3y ago
In order to achieve the two goals you mentioned it was tremendously useful for the enslavers to wipe any sort of ancestral information from the diaspora. So the statement is not untrue. It’s part of the same mentality that prevented slaves from getting an education or information about the outside world in general.
- Hizonner 3y ago
  That would mean that slavery was the purpose of denying them the information, not the other way around. Nobody said or thought "let's enslave these people in order to deny them information about their ancestry" or "let's enslave persons of African descent in order to keep them ignorant". The chain of purposes is "I don't want to do this shit work, nor do I want to pay anybody else to do it" therefore "I'll force somebody else to do it for free" therefore "I'll keep them as ignorant as possible to make it harder for them to resist".