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As a Canadian, I’m glad that Meta is doing this. Google is going to be doing it soon as well from what I’ve heard. The irony is the government says their inte

As a Canadian, I’m glad that Meta is doing this. Google is going to be doing it soon as well from what I’ve heard. The irony is the government says their intent was to “protect Canadian media by getting big tech to pay their fair share” and it is backfiring spectacularly. Having the opposite effect where there is less traffic going to these media sites, and will have a big impact on their bottom line from their innability to run ads on their own domains and make revenue that way. Of course, this will just lead to another media bailout making them even more reliant on government subsidy - which the Liberal party will use as a wedge issue come election time because the opposition (which is leading and gaining in the polls right now) will want to defund them. Wether this would be successful as an election issue is yet to be seen, but there’s one thing that the Liberal party is good at is demonizing the opposition and if their gravy train is on the line I’m sure e media corps will gladly indulge him. And of course this completely neuters independent media which is much more likely to actually be critical of the establishment. Leaving only pro establishment agencies in place to do the bidding of the hand that feeds them. So the big players take a hit to revenue (and get bailed out), and every one else gets completely wiped out. It’s absolutely sinister what Justin Trudeau’s government is doing. I used to think they were just stupid but it’s scandal after corruption scandal after corruption scandal with him. At some point you stop giving them the benefit of the doubt.

evandale 3y ago
[flagged]
- paulddraper 3y ago
  > [2019] in the early 90s and early 2000s What's the statue of limitations on this stuff?
  - Tao3300 3y ago
    In the US he'd have been crucified, so I guess it's more forgiving in Canada.
    - newsclues 3y ago
      Dynasty. W Bush got away with things most people wouldn't have as well (booger sugar) at the time.
    - paulddraper 3y ago
      Not a politician, but Jimmy Kimmel seems to be doing just fine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aPbefau2Zc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aPbefau2Zc
- VHRanger 3y ago
  Can you give more sources into the 2017 FPTP not happening event? That was one of the biggest issues I was rooting for, and they claimed "it wouldnt have benefit the system", which I mark as bullshit on the theory [1] So I was always curious about the inside baseball of why it failed [1] I did my Msc. thesis on game theory - not on public choice stuff but still I'd consider myself versed in the matter
  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    They (Liberals) only wanted an end to FPTP if they could get ranked ballots, And the multiparty committee that was struck to look at the issue refused to accept that, and recommended a mixed-member proportional system. Ranked ballots would effectively mean, in the context of Canadian politics, a strong bias towards the Liberals -- because in a Venn Diagram of voter preferences in Canada the Liberals almost always end up in the centre. So ranked ballots would effectively end the NDP and other third/fourth parties as an electoral force, or so NDP & Bloc & Greens analysts etc thought. It's notable that Australia's ranked ballot system also seems to have narrowed choices there to a two party system and they have no left wing party equivalent to the NDP anymore. The NDP favours a proportional or mixed-member proportional system and has since its founding in the 60s & the Conservatives don't want any reform at all. So Trudeau killed the committee, gimped the minister in charge of it, and lied and said "the committee couldn't come to an agreement" -- which really meant: they wouldn't adopt the policy he demanded. And that was the closing of that very briefly open window. If Canada ever gets electoral reform federally it will be because the NDP wins power, by some freak accident. Except Singh has basically sunk the party.
    - VHRanger 3y ago
      Thanks for the info! > It's notable that Australia's ranked ballot system also seems to have narrowed choices there to a two party system and they have no left wing party equivalent to the NDP anymore. It's been a while since I studied the topic, but that's a bad way to frame it. You have a set of policy ideas, which get aggregated in member constituents (congress in the US, parliament in Canada, etc.) and those get aggregated into parties. Changing the voting system changes the voting power of policies against each other. Ranked voting for instance diminishes the electability of policies that people *hate* (so a lot of right wing culture war stuff for instance get reduced by ranked choice) > because in a Venn Diagram of voter preferences in Canada the Liberals almost always end up in the centre That was a very short term way of thinking on their end (no surprise from politicians tbh). The change in voting system would change what policies the parties are about over the medium-long run. Even though the name of the parties might remain the same -- the actual discussion and policies being proposed change in response. > The NDP favours a proportional or mixed-member proportional system I'd be fine with that. I also like cardinal voting a lot tbh. > the Conservatives don't want any reform at all. No surprise there, they're coasting on the hilarious overrepresentation of suburbs and exurbs + FPTP being a broken piece of crap. > If Canada ever gets electoral reform federally it will be because the NDP wins power, by some freak accident. Canadian liberals will sink themselves like they did in Quebec IMO. The sad truth is that it'll get us some wacko culture war right winger for a decade rather than a healthier center-left wing party.
- rfrey 3y ago
  Calling out "blackface" for somebody in the 90's dressing up as Aladdin is a definite tell for somebody's political biases.
  - peanuty1 3y ago
    Trudeau was in his thirties when he did blackface for the third time.
  - madeofpalk 3y ago
    What is politics if not "biases" in action? I am biased against politicians because of their beliefs on certain issues. So what?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - chelical 3y ago
    I have no stake in Canadian politics, but this is a very weird hill to die on. "Justin Trudeau also admitted to wearing blackface makeup to sing the Jamaican folk song "Day O" in high school for a talent show." Source: https://time.com/5680759/justin-trudeau-brownface-photo/ https://time.com/5680759/justin-trudeau-brownface-photo/
  - Transpire7487 3y ago
    I’ve know since I was 8 years old (at least) that Black/Brown/Any Face is wrong. Trudeau was 30 doing blackface when I was that age. He has no excuse.
    - fouc 3y ago
      > In 2000, Jimmy Fallon performed in blackface on Saturday Night Live, imitating former cast member Chris Rock. > Jimmy Kimmel donned black paint over his body and used an exaggerated, accented voice to portray NBA player Karl Malone on The Man Show in 2003. > In 2007, Sarah Silverman performed in blackface for a skit from The Sarah Silverman Program. I don't think many people really realized blackface was problematic until sometime after 2007. Twitter started in 2006, so I imagine awareness improved in part due to twitter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface
chaostheory 3y ago
> Having the opposite effect where there is less traffic going to these media sites, and will have a big impact on their bottom line from their innability to run ads on their own domains and make revenue that way. I think this happened to France early on. What they did was to force Google to pay no matter what. Optically, it looks like extortion and protectionist laws for incumbents too big to fail. I’m not sure Canada can go that route though since they probably care about their relationship with the US unlike France.
- xvector 3y ago
  I really want to see tech companies pull out of France and watch it collapse technologically overnight because of this. Ridiculous that the government can get away with acting like this.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  I can’t find that anywhere. I see google was fined for not compensating publishers. But not that google blocked news or whatever in France and still owed publishers something.
  - xvector 3y ago
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/13/business/media/google-france-news-content-fine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/13/business/media/google-fra... After Google decided to block all news, the French government accused them of "not operating in good faith."
cmrdporcupine 3y ago
It's all just consistent with Canadian economic policy since confederation and before. The preference here is for monopolies dating back to the Hudson's Bay Company, etc, and powerful protected interests in large part control the state here ... Both major parties are completely under their control, just with variance in the sectors. The federal Conservatives are dominated and controlled these days by western energy sector interests (and the provincial Ontario ones by real estate development). The federal Liberals by the Westons and Bell and, it seems, the shrinking media sector. Nationalism is the sugar water they use to sweeten the deal to make it palatable to Canadians. People have a gut reflex to swallow this stuff because they are rightly or wrongly attuned to the threat of dominance from the US. When Harper was prime minister, it was all about fossil fuel companies, defunding and silencing climate scientists, shoveling money into projects in the west and energy sector, etc. With Trudeau it's just a different pile of bullshit. I'm sick of the dysfunction. It's a corrupt state, with corrupt, colonial foundations.
- FredPret 3y ago
  Try going to an actual corrupt state with colonial foundations. Canada is heaven on earth with zero problems in comparison.
  - SllX 3y ago
    One of the ways less corrupt countries keep it that way is by free societies calling out and addressing that corruption. When we refuse to, that’s when corruption festers, even if it looks like heaven on earth to an outsider, corruption is corruption.
  - chongli 3y ago
    We’re not North Korea or anything like that, but we have a pretty terrible legacy with residential schools and the destruction of indigenous people’s families, languages, and cultures, not to mention land. Canada is also in the midst of the biggest housing affordability crisis we’ve ever had. We’re in 3rd place in the world behind Luxembourg and Portugal for the most unaffordable housing, relative to income. The U.S. may have some serious affordability issues in the Bay Area, Seattle, and New York, but large swaths of the rest of the country aren’t so bad. Most Canadians are crowded into a few extremely unaffordable cities.
zauguin 3y ago
If all media outlets no longer receive traffic from big tech companies there's actually a decent chance that it will not affect their traffic much. If only some news outlets would be affected the others would profit, but if all are than there is a good chance that people just start accessing news more directly again.

evandale 3y ago

[flagged]

paulddraper 3y ago
> [2019] in the early 90s and early 2000s What's the statue of limitations on this stuff?
- Tao3300 3y ago
  In the US he'd have been crucified, so I guess it's more forgiving in Canada.
  - newsclues 3y ago
    Dynasty. W Bush got away with things most people wouldn't have as well (booger sugar) at the time.
  - paulddraper 3y ago
    Not a politician, but Jimmy Kimmel seems to be doing just fine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aPbefau2Zc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aPbefau2Zc
VHRanger 3y ago
Can you give more sources into the 2017 FPTP not happening event? That was one of the biggest issues I was rooting for, and they claimed "it wouldnt have benefit the system", which I mark as bullshit on the theory [1] So I was always curious about the inside baseball of why it failed [1] I did my Msc. thesis on game theory - not on public choice stuff but still I'd consider myself versed in the matter
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  They (Liberals) only wanted an end to FPTP if they could get ranked ballots, And the multiparty committee that was struck to look at the issue refused to accept that, and recommended a mixed-member proportional system. Ranked ballots would effectively mean, in the context of Canadian politics, a strong bias towards the Liberals -- because in a Venn Diagram of voter preferences in Canada the Liberals almost always end up in the centre. So ranked ballots would effectively end the NDP and other third/fourth parties as an electoral force, or so NDP & Bloc & Greens analysts etc thought. It's notable that Australia's ranked ballot system also seems to have narrowed choices there to a two party system and they have no left wing party equivalent to the NDP anymore. The NDP favours a proportional or mixed-member proportional system and has since its founding in the 60s & the Conservatives don't want any reform at all. So Trudeau killed the committee, gimped the minister in charge of it, and lied and said "the committee couldn't come to an agreement" -- which really meant: they wouldn't adopt the policy he demanded. And that was the closing of that very briefly open window. If Canada ever gets electoral reform federally it will be because the NDP wins power, by some freak accident. Except Singh has basically sunk the party.
  - VHRanger 3y ago
    Thanks for the info! > It's notable that Australia's ranked ballot system also seems to have narrowed choices there to a two party system and they have no left wing party equivalent to the NDP anymore. It's been a while since I studied the topic, but that's a bad way to frame it. You have a set of policy ideas, which get aggregated in member constituents (congress in the US, parliament in Canada, etc.) and those get aggregated into parties. Changing the voting system changes the voting power of policies against each other. Ranked voting for instance diminishes the electability of policies that people *hate* (so a lot of right wing culture war stuff for instance get reduced by ranked choice) > because in a Venn Diagram of voter preferences in Canada the Liberals almost always end up in the centre That was a very short term way of thinking on their end (no surprise from politicians tbh). The change in voting system would change what policies the parties are about over the medium-long run. Even though the name of the parties might remain the same -- the actual discussion and policies being proposed change in response. > The NDP favours a proportional or mixed-member proportional system I'd be fine with that. I also like cardinal voting a lot tbh. > the Conservatives don't want any reform at all. No surprise there, they're coasting on the hilarious overrepresentation of suburbs and exurbs + FPTP being a broken piece of crap. > If Canada ever gets electoral reform federally it will be because the NDP wins power, by some freak accident. Canadian liberals will sink themselves like they did in Quebec IMO. The sad truth is that it'll get us some wacko culture war right winger for a decade rather than a healthier center-left wing party.
rfrey 3y ago
Calling out "blackface" for somebody in the 90's dressing up as Aladdin is a definite tell for somebody's political biases.
- peanuty1 3y ago
  Trudeau was in his thirties when he did blackface for the third time.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  What is politics if not "biases" in action? I am biased against politicians because of their beliefs on certain issues. So what?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- chelical 3y ago
  I have no stake in Canadian politics, but this is a very weird hill to die on. "Justin Trudeau also admitted to wearing blackface makeup to sing the Jamaican folk song "Day O" in high school for a talent show." Source: https://time.com/5680759/justin-trudeau-brownface-photo/ https://time.com/5680759/justin-trudeau-brownface-photo/
- Transpire7487 3y ago
  I’ve know since I was 8 years old (at least) that Black/Brown/Any Face is wrong. Trudeau was 30 doing blackface when I was that age. He has no excuse.
  - fouc 3y ago
    > In 2000, Jimmy Fallon performed in blackface on Saturday Night Live, imitating former cast member Chris Rock. > Jimmy Kimmel donned black paint over his body and used an exaggerated, accented voice to portray NBA player Karl Malone on The Man Show in 2003. > In 2007, Sarah Silverman performed in blackface for a skit from The Sarah Silverman Program. I don't think many people really realized blackface was problematic until sometime after 2007. Twitter started in 2006, so I imagine awareness improved in part due to twitter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface

chaostheory 3y ago

> Having the opposite effect where there is less traffic going to these media sites, and will have a big impact on their bottom line from their innability to run ads on their own domains and make revenue that way. I think this happened to France early on. What they did was to force Google to pay no matter what. Optically, it looks like extortion and protectionist laws for incumbents too big to fail. I’m not sure Canada can go that route though since they probably care about their relationship with the US unlike France.

xvector 3y ago
I really want to see tech companies pull out of France and watch it collapse technologically overnight because of this. Ridiculous that the government can get away with acting like this.
nonethewiser 3y ago
I can’t find that anywhere. I see google was fined for not compensating publishers. But not that google blocked news or whatever in France and still owed publishers something.
- xvector 3y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/13/business/media/google-france-news-content-fine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/13/business/media/google-fra... After Google decided to block all news, the French government accused them of "not operating in good faith."

cmrdporcupine 3y ago

It's all just consistent with Canadian economic policy since confederation and before. The preference here is for monopolies dating back to the Hudson's Bay Company, etc, and powerful protected interests in large part control the state here ... Both major parties are completely under their control, just with variance in the sectors. The federal Conservatives are dominated and controlled these days by western energy sector interests (and the provincial Ontario ones by real estate development). The federal Liberals by the Westons and Bell and, it seems, the shrinking media sector. Nationalism is the sugar water they use to sweeten the deal to make it palatable to Canadians. People have a gut reflex to swallow this stuff because they are rightly or wrongly attuned to the threat of dominance from the US. When Harper was prime minister, it was all about fossil fuel companies, defunding and silencing climate scientists, shoveling money into projects in the west and energy sector, etc. With Trudeau it's just a different pile of bullshit. I'm sick of the dysfunction. It's a corrupt state, with corrupt, colonial foundations.

FredPret 3y ago
Try going to an actual corrupt state with colonial foundations. Canada is heaven on earth with zero problems in comparison.
- SllX 3y ago
  One of the ways less corrupt countries keep it that way is by free societies calling out and addressing that corruption. When we refuse to, that’s when corruption festers, even if it looks like heaven on earth to an outsider, corruption is corruption.
- chongli 3y ago
  We’re not North Korea or anything like that, but we have a pretty terrible legacy with residential schools and the destruction of indigenous people’s families, languages, and cultures, not to mention land. Canada is also in the midst of the biggest housing affordability crisis we’ve ever had. We’re in 3rd place in the world behind Luxembourg and Portugal for the most unaffordable housing, relative to income. The U.S. may have some serious affordability issues in the Bay Area, Seattle, and New York, but large swaths of the rest of the country aren’t so bad. Most Canadians are crowded into a few extremely unaffordable cities.

zauguin 3y ago

If all media outlets no longer receive traffic from big tech companies there's actually a decent chance that it will not affect their traffic much. If only some news outlets would be affected the others would profit, but if all are than there is a good chance that people just start accessing news more directly again.