6 ms·

This is very well written and gripping even. I don’t see the negatives other commenters are pointing out. Yes she’s talking about her perceptions born from her

by ianai 3y ago

This is very well written and gripping even. I don’t see the negatives other commenters are pointing out. Yes she’s talking about her perceptions born from her clients and years worked. That’s an absolute right for all of us, right? To simply relate the experiences we’ve had. She’s definitely seen a side of humanity that, while seen by many, doesn’t quite often get public visibility-sunlight. And lo and behold, it’s a kind of grungy crudeness-but still human and shared. Personally, I’ve worked in retail and in corporate in major casinos. People will assume they’re better than you and treat you as something like a servant simply because you’re the one taking their money for a thing. Or just because you “work here” as was the case in both retail and casino. That dynamic even exists in organizations between divisions and teams within the same organization. Ask yourself how that would change in the authors situation? I don’t have a thesis. May this serve as a good reminder to treat all people with decency and an amount of respect if not kindness. There’s exactly one right way to treat a person, as a person-an end unto his/it/herself.

lmm 3y ago
> I don’t see the negatives other commenters are pointing out. Yes she’s talking about her perceptions born from her clients and years worked. That’s an absolute right for all of us, right? To simply relate the experiences we’ve had. She's not "simply relating experiences" though. She goes beyond that, turning them into a general sociopolitical claim: > Unlike sex work, my “good” jobs didn’t threaten to overthrow traditional power structures. Many sex workers, including myself, have long hypothesized that the reason so many people in power work to keep the commercial sex trade marginalized is because they’re threatened by it—by the idea that it’s the only field where women outearn men, that it’s an industry where women get to call the shots, and that women profit off something that men have been told they’re entitled to for free: sex and attention in equal parts.
- ianai 3y ago
  That, too, is simple. And ok. And ok to agree/disagree.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- raincole 3y ago
  Have men been told they're entitled to sex and attention for free tho? I kinda feel it's the exact opposite. Men are told they need to pay for meals, rooms, travel, and housing and custody later. Men are told they should be the proactive side and take the risk of being rejected. I'd even say (at least in TV shows and movies) men are expected to be the funny ones and provide entertaining values in a relationship. I'm not saying that intrinsitically wrong or right. I just like to know in which culture men are told these.
  - mise_en_place 3y ago
    I think this is accurate. Men are often ridiculed for thinking they are entitled anything. But especially so for sex and female attention.
    - ianai 3y ago
      It’s all accurate and inaccurate because people are all very different and come to different positions differently. Some believe they can “sin” under the cover of night and still keep their comfortable places in society as their sins weren’t seen nor known. Secrets and all that. Imagine how such a person would treat a sex worker. Could be very starkly different than what they’d expose the rest of the time. You’ll notice I’m not working in absolutes here. She may have, but working the night she saw things that led her to draw certain conclusions from the things she saw and experienced. I’d venture that she would be able to admit her experiences weren’t the end all be all of humanity though. But still very informative of the people in that space. Edit-In my experience, whether someone is told explicitly that they can exploit another or not is irrelevant. The exploitive figure that out on their own often enough.
      - imtringued 3y ago
        She only has experience with customers who seek her out though. What about the type of men who would never ask for her services? She knows nothing about them.
        3y ago
- mfo4321 3y ago
  [dead]
- JKCalhoun 3y ago
  > She goes beyond that, turning them into a general sociopolitical claim Also well within her right to do so.
  - dahfizz 3y ago
    Nobody is saying she shouldn't be allowed to do that. But when you talk politics, everyone else is "well within their right" to disagree with you.
    - JKCalhoun 3y ago
      You're right, of course. I thought the issue was someone suggesting she should "stay within her lane". Whether I agree with them or not I like to hear a person's views if they have walked in shoes I'll probably never walk in.
iamnotsure 3y ago
No disrespect, but I am not sure if casinos are in the business of helping mankind. Therefore, it is not only the casino clients that behave badly. The fact that money changes hands means nothing.
- beebmam 3y ago
  Humans have some deeply self-destructive tendencies. It's not just a predator/prey or an oppressor/oppressed relationship. I'm not sure that if we ban all outlets for self-destructive behavior that something good will come of it. Offering some amount of consentual self-destruction is absolutely in the business of helping mankind, in my opinion.
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    In my opinion, humanity would be better off fighting our self destructive tendencies instead of letting those with power take advantage of their situation and squeezing the ignorant dry.
    - dotnet00 3y ago
      Fighting them means offering less destructive ways to release those urges, and for the vast majority of people, that's what casinos are. If we're talking about destructive urges, another popular one would be alcohol, and yet we have many many examples of how it needs to be accessible to an extent to serve as a release, even if sometimes it still causes serious damage.
      - Kiro 3y ago
        What are those examples?
        dotnet00 3y ago
        In the US, famously the prohibition era, and there are similar cases all over the world, eg cases in Iran of people getting ethanol poisoning from homebrewed alcohol, and very common similar occurances in various states of India, where the government sometimes spuriously decides to temporarily ban alcohol consumption. Put differently, the societal cost of outright banning some self-destructive things ends up being higher than just regulating them because a ban doesn't actually stop much. We even seem to be heading towards a similar realization for many drugs (eg Marijuana).
doublerabbit 3y ago
> May this serve as a good reminder to treat all people with decency and an amount of respect if not kindness. There’s exactly one right way to treat a person, as a person-an end unto his/it/herself. And in the scenario where that if you have a neighbor who decides to have his apartment windows open and TV on loud till 3am? I've tried speaking to him, wrote him a letter, yet he's ignored all. I'm now looking in to taking him to court. I always hold respect for everything and everyone, but the naivety is wearing thin, and I start to disagree. If you start and continue to disobey the rules of common decency, consideration frankly you don't deserve nice or respect. If we lived in a truly harmonic world where problems could be squished with respect, kindness; sure. Otherwise it's moot and that line is a puff piece that falls on it's feet leaving yourself to suffer while you accept that they can get away with the conflicts. Sure, you could say this is the most respectful option than say smashing down the door and smashing the TV with a hammer.
- doublerabbit 3y ago
  Downvoters: Why should I give respect to my neighbour? Why should someone who takes a child life as an pedophile, deserve respect niceness? Why should someone who's a psychopath who goes their own way to murder deserve respect? Why should someone who carries out unspeakable crimes, be respected? Your telling me that no one can answer those questions?
matt-attack 3y ago
It’s funny you never see eloquent, well written articles about dishwashers who live in sweaty kitchens of dive Chinese restaurants, existing on the edge of society, jammed into studio apartments in the worst parts of town, just eking by. You never read accounts of backbreaking laborers who dig ditches day in day out, or service sewer systems, covered in refuse. They sacrifice their bodies for their paycheck, and too live on the edge of society. We’re taught that laborers sacrificing their bodies in this manner is just par for the course. The massage worker’s account almost seems white collar in comparison.
- pell 3y ago
  In the world of literature you will find much of what you're describing. Just to name a few: "Hard Times" by Dickens, "The Grapes of Wrath" by Steinbeck, "Germinal" by Émile Zola. "Christ in Concrete" by Donato is another one. If you want non-fiction, I can recommend "Nickel and Dimed" by Ehrenreich or "Working" by Terkel.
  - ianai 3y ago
    And then there’s Tom Waits, Bruce Springsteen, Johnny Cash, uhh a huge amount of blues, etc.

by ianai 3y ago

lmm 3y ago

> I don’t see the negatives other commenters are pointing out. Yes she’s talking about her perceptions born from her clients and years worked. That’s an absolute right for all of us, right? To simply relate the experiences we’ve had. She's not "simply relating experiences" though. She goes beyond that, turning them into a general sociopolitical claim: > Unlike sex work, my “good” jobs didn’t threaten to overthrow traditional power structures. Many sex workers, including myself, have long hypothesized that the reason so many people in power work to keep the commercial sex trade marginalized is because they’re threatened by it—by the idea that it’s the only field where women outearn men, that it’s an industry where women get to call the shots, and that women profit off something that men have been told they’re entitled to for free: sex and attention in equal parts.

ianai 3y ago
That, too, is simple. And ok. And ok to agree/disagree.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
raincole 3y ago
Have men been told they're entitled to sex and attention for free tho? I kinda feel it's the exact opposite. Men are told they need to pay for meals, rooms, travel, and housing and custody later. Men are told they should be the proactive side and take the risk of being rejected. I'd even say (at least in TV shows and movies) men are expected to be the funny ones and provide entertaining values in a relationship. I'm not saying that intrinsitically wrong or right. I just like to know in which culture men are told these.
- mise_en_place 3y ago
  I think this is accurate. Men are often ridiculed for thinking they are entitled anything. But especially so for sex and female attention.
  - ianai 3y ago
    It’s all accurate and inaccurate because people are all very different and come to different positions differently. Some believe they can “sin” under the cover of night and still keep their comfortable places in society as their sins weren’t seen nor known. Secrets and all that. Imagine how such a person would treat a sex worker. Could be very starkly different than what they’d expose the rest of the time. You’ll notice I’m not working in absolutes here. She may have, but working the night she saw things that led her to draw certain conclusions from the things she saw and experienced. I’d venture that she would be able to admit her experiences weren’t the end all be all of humanity though. But still very informative of the people in that space. Edit-In my experience, whether someone is told explicitly that they can exploit another or not is irrelevant. The exploitive figure that out on their own often enough.
    - imtringued 3y ago
      She only has experience with customers who seek her out though. What about the type of men who would never ask for her services? She knows nothing about them.
      - 3y ago
mfo4321 3y ago
[dead]
JKCalhoun 3y ago
> She goes beyond that, turning them into a general sociopolitical claim Also well within her right to do so.
- dahfizz 3y ago
  Nobody is saying she shouldn't be allowed to do that. But when you talk politics, everyone else is "well within their right" to disagree with you.
  - JKCalhoun 3y ago
    You're right, of course. I thought the issue was someone suggesting she should "stay within her lane". Whether I agree with them or not I like to hear a person's views if they have walked in shoes I'll probably never walk in.

iamnotsure 3y ago

No disrespect, but I am not sure if casinos are in the business of helping mankind. Therefore, it is not only the casino clients that behave badly. The fact that money changes hands means nothing.

beebmam 3y ago
Humans have some deeply self-destructive tendencies. It's not just a predator/prey or an oppressor/oppressed relationship. I'm not sure that if we ban all outlets for self-destructive behavior that something good will come of it. Offering some amount of consentual self-destruction is absolutely in the business of helping mankind, in my opinion.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  In my opinion, humanity would be better off fighting our self destructive tendencies instead of letting those with power take advantage of their situation and squeezing the ignorant dry.
  - dotnet00 3y ago
    Fighting them means offering less destructive ways to release those urges, and for the vast majority of people, that's what casinos are. If we're talking about destructive urges, another popular one would be alcohol, and yet we have many many examples of how it needs to be accessible to an extent to serve as a release, even if sometimes it still causes serious damage.
    - Kiro 3y ago
      What are those examples?
      - dotnet00 3y ago
        In the US, famously the prohibition era, and there are similar cases all over the world, eg cases in Iran of people getting ethanol poisoning from homebrewed alcohol, and very common similar occurances in various states of India, where the government sometimes spuriously decides to temporarily ban alcohol consumption. Put differently, the societal cost of outright banning some self-destructive things ends up being higher than just regulating them because a ban doesn't actually stop much. We even seem to be heading towards a similar realization for many drugs (eg Marijuana).

doublerabbit 3y ago

> May this serve as a good reminder to treat all people with decency and an amount of respect if not kindness. There’s exactly one right way to treat a person, as a person-an end unto his/it/herself. And in the scenario where that if you have a neighbor who decides to have his apartment windows open and TV on loud till 3am? I've tried speaking to him, wrote him a letter, yet he's ignored all. I'm now looking in to taking him to court. I always hold respect for everything and everyone, but the naivety is wearing thin, and I start to disagree. If you start and continue to disobey the rules of common decency, consideration frankly you don't deserve nice or respect. If we lived in a truly harmonic world where problems could be squished with respect, kindness; sure. Otherwise it's moot and that line is a puff piece that falls on it's feet leaving yourself to suffer while you accept that they can get away with the conflicts. Sure, you could say this is the most respectful option than say smashing down the door and smashing the TV with a hammer.

doublerabbit 3y ago
Downvoters: Why should I give respect to my neighbour? Why should someone who takes a child life as an pedophile, deserve respect niceness? Why should someone who's a psychopath who goes their own way to murder deserve respect? Why should someone who carries out unspeakable crimes, be respected? Your telling me that no one can answer those questions?

matt-attack 3y ago

It’s funny you never see eloquent, well written articles about dishwashers who live in sweaty kitchens of dive Chinese restaurants, existing on the edge of society, jammed into studio apartments in the worst parts of town, just eking by. You never read accounts of backbreaking laborers who dig ditches day in day out, or service sewer systems, covered in refuse. They sacrifice their bodies for their paycheck, and too live on the edge of society. We’re taught that laborers sacrificing their bodies in this manner is just par for the course. The massage worker’s account almost seems white collar in comparison.

pell 3y ago
In the world of literature you will find much of what you're describing. Just to name a few: "Hard Times" by Dickens, "The Grapes of Wrath" by Steinbeck, "Germinal" by Émile Zola. "Christ in Concrete" by Donato is another one. If you want non-fiction, I can recommend "Nickel and Dimed" by Ehrenreich or "Working" by Terkel.
- ianai 3y ago
  And then there’s Tom Waits, Bruce Springsteen, Johnny Cash, uhh a huge amount of blues, etc.