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I've posted this before, but I went to a new dentist one time and though I'd never had a cavity, the new dentist said I had nine, some of which were pretty bad

I've posted this before, but I went to a new dentist one time and though I'd never had a cavity, the new dentist said I had nine, some of which were pretty bad and needed immediate treatment lest they require a root canal. I didn't have any money or dental insurance at the time, so I didn't go back and just worried about it a lot for a while. That was twenty-five years ago. Haven't been to a dentist since. My teeth are fine, and always have been. Funny story about the 'no cavities' thing - when I was maybe 12 I went to a new dentist who found a cavity in a molar, drilled it out, and filled it with some sort of 'invisible' polymer filling and charged a whole bunch of money for it. Next dentist I went to, I mentioned the cavity and he said nobody had drilled on the tooth and there was no sign of a cavity or a filling of any type there. Some years later, I was reading somewhere online and found out that the dentist who "filled" the "cavity" was a subscriber to a dental practice management program run by the Church of Scientology that, in part, taught that it was OK to rip off patients who weren't Scientologists. A few years after that, the dentist got arrested for molesting children and is probably still in prison.

j45 3y ago
What’s the saying.. At every meeting something is sold, either a reason why you’re buying, or a reason why you’re not buying.
leoqa 3y ago
I had a similar experience, got up sold on more frequent cleanings and they always found something to iterate on. I took their offer once to fill a “potential infection” and then recognized the pattern. They probably legitimately think the tooth may decay further - it probably won’t and you probably don’t need pre-emptive correction but they make more money and “fix” the problem for you so they may not see the ethical issue.
- microtonal 3y ago
  Frequent cleanings are nice though. As an avid tea drinker it's nice to have white teeth again once or twice a year. The insurance covers most of the cost, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
  - elialbert 3y ago
    this worked on tea stains for me: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092SMPQQD https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092SMPQQD
  - lost_tourist 3y ago
    once or twice isn't "frequent" in the USA. I'd guess you're in another country? Most Dentists here say 2 times a year. I had one who suggested every 4 months and I refused. I go every 9 months now, to split the difference between 6 and 12
    - stevehawk 3y ago
      well.. "twice a year".. but your insurance policy probably says 1 every 181 days.. just to rob you of the actual twice a year.. #america
      - pb7 3y ago
        There are 365.25 days in a year so insurance policy is quite generous in fact.
        Scoundreller 3y ago
        ehhhhh, close. Just watch out when we don't have a leap year in 2100
      - phonon 3y ago
        Ummm...a year is longer than 2 x 181 days...so what is being robbed exactly?
        kortilla 3y ago
        The comment was actually a critique of the US education system :)
        brewdad 3y ago
somenameforme 3y ago
It's so weird, as I had a very near identical experience. I went through a cursory checkup then they sat me in some waiting room with a video on all sorts of dental diseases, apparently all of which I had. They needed to drill out some half dozen cavities, carry out a root canal, and I cannot even remember all what else. I noped out without even asking for a quote, and started skipping my annual exams. Some 20 years later I finally went to a dentist again, in a developing country no less, because I had a visible cavity - my first ever. It was quite scary given the elapsed time. $15 dollars, and about as many minutes, later all was said and done, with no other issues present.
Traubenfuchs 3y ago
Went to a new dentist after moving. She found two "small spots that could go bad if left untreated!" and "should be drilled and filled!". A year later I am still in pain some time. Dentists are fucking psychopaths and we are literally cattle at their mercy. I have no idea how to continue, how to find a dentist I can trust with my stupid teeth. I am terribly afraid of them now.
- delfinom 3y ago
  Find a dentist that'll actually do x-rays and show you the cavity on them. Mine does that. The cavities show pretty relatively easily on x-rays because the tooth density is compromised. If you are in pain, they either damaged the nerve which is bad as that could require a root canal eventually. Or they failed to clean out the cavity and it's infected. Either way, you should experiment with finding a dentist, perhaps go in for a cleaning every 6 months to check a dentist out. At not point are you obligated to do a cavity filling unless you are comfortable with it. Just decline any additional services beyond the cleaning.
  - Traubenfuchs 3y ago
    Yeah next time I will get a second opinion. My old family dentist said everything was fine after I went back to her, so I don‘t think there is infection, also, my CRP is very low.
- hinkley 3y ago
  God the heat and cold sensitivities from that crank’s fillings bugged me for ten years before they settled down.
- voisin 3y ago
  Did you have the work done? I suspect you should go to a different dentist based on reviews from people you know. Also, try oil pulling and get some good higher end toothpaste. I had some sensitivity and after doing both everything is great.
- randerson 3y ago
  I've considered using lies to detect lies. Go to a dentist and lie to them about a particular tooth sometimes being sore. If they tell you there's nothing wrong with it, that's your new dentist.
programmertote 3y ago
Same thing. I am always good with flossing twice a day, brushing teeth twice a day (in fact, I spend ~10 mins brushing teeth gently and carefully every day). But the dentist in SF I visited 10 years ago "saw" 4 cavities and he showed me the X-rays, which I didn't know better I should have looked at carefully. But I got 4 fillings. Credit to him, those fillings never had any issue for the last 10+ years. But I went to a new dentist in FL a few months ago, and that guy told me to refill them because according to him, they are starting to crack (not sure how he saw them in grainy X-rays; he tried to show me one, but I couldn't see it) :D Anyway, I agreed to have them refilled since it's been a while and the cost was reasonable. Now one of the fillings he redid in my molar makes me feel uncomfortable when I chew things with it. I wrote up a more detailed experience about this in another comment in this post. I hope people see it and learn from it to not trust their dentists easily (esp. the ones you are visiting for the first time).
- istjohn 3y ago
  If you tell them it makes you uncomfortable when you chew, they will probably grind down the filling for you at no charge--at least mine did.
- mweatherill 3y ago
  So you had fillings which lasted 10 years which were replaced for reasonable cost. The dentist, an expert at reading radiographs, could see something that you couldn’t. What exactly were you expecting here?
2-718-281-828 3y ago
the dental elephant in the room is that our body can heal cavities to some extent. especially if you change your dental hygiene and diet. (also your dentist might have tried to scam you, of course)
- hinkley 3y ago
  There’s a process that is approved in Europe but not in the US last I looked. Involves UV light (or was it ozone?) and a bag over your tooth full of intense fluorine to first kill the cavity and then remineralize it. No drill.
- peteradio 3y ago
  Nuh uh! - your dentist probably
pcurve 3y ago
Some of these dentists should either have their license revoked or prosecuted for malpractice. I can believe what I just read.
hinkley 3y ago
Are you me? Was this dentist in Fremont, WA? I finally found a good dentist, but it was after I chipped one during the pandemic. It was never was done right in the first place, or the second place when I had it fixed. Lost that tooth unfortunately. But after ten years with no dentistry, I had only one other cavity, and of course some light gingivitis. They did not have an idea I hadn’t been for over ten years. I had great insurance at the time, and I was so shocked that I didn’t get a second opinion. After many years of retrospect, I have deep fissures which I got sealed years ago, and I suspect this hack saw shadows and assumed cavity instead of looking, because almost of the cavities she found were in the molars. If the news is awful always get several opinions. One person may know better ways to handle it.
quitit 3y ago
No one becomes a dentist because they're keen to pull shards of chalk-soft teeth from senior's mouths or enjoy dealing with the scent of rot from infection. It's a career for the money and it's rather easy to find dentists which are optimising for that. In medicine you treat the patient, not the picture. If your teeth seem fine, they probably are fine. You will always hear a lot of differing opinions about this from health care professionals and there are of course exceptions, but exceptions are exceptions. You must keep in mind that HCPs are people that see a disproportionate number of very unwell people and they are not immune to bias. Because of this bias, a common phrase in medicine is if you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras. It's a way of saying that most symptoms you see will be from ordinary ailments. I can think of too many cases where patients went through needless testing and anxiety only to eventually discover that it was all for nothing.
taocoyote 3y ago
Similar experience but I was in the military and I didn't have a choice to say no. I have 5 fillings. They wanted to schedule 2 more but I was due to be reassigned overseas. They tried to delay my reassignment over it. Eventually, they cleared my paperwork but made it clear I was to see the dentist at my new base as soon as possible. My new dentist says there is nothing wrong with my teeth whatsoever.
JeremyNT 3y ago
To back this up, I used to go to the dentist regularly as a child. I got the regular cleaning and such until I went to college and had to pay for things myself. I didn't have any dental insurance so I stopped going around then. Maybe 10 years later, after countless people warning me that I was gambling with my health by never going to a dentist, I thought I'd try again. I went to the local university dental school, where they need problems to work on. They told me I was totally fine. I haven't been to a dentist in the maybe 15 years since that experience. It turns out there is almost no evidence to support routine cleanings or consulting with a dentist. HN anecdotal data is not medical advice - but if you aren't suffering from any dental issues, it could be worth your time to do some research before you schedule your next dental appointment, and if you get a diagnosis of an issue it might be worth a second opinion. I highly recommend checking to see if your local dental school is taking appointments, because they have no incentive to push additional procedures on you (they can always find somebody who really needs it).
pedalpete 3y ago
Similar experience with an extra twist. I hadn't been to a dentist in 10 years, not even for a cleaning. I chipped tooth and went in to get it fixed. The dentist tried to upsell me on a ton of things that needed to be looked at. Never once mentioned that it looked like I hadn't had a cleaning in a while. I got my tooth fixed (just a bit of bonding), never had any of the other work he recommended done. I went to a new dentist a few months ago because I was starting to get some sensitivity and exposure at a gum, which I thought was really bad. He said it wasn't a big deal, fixed it up, but then says he wants to cap all of my teeth! Happy to be reading this and think I'll wait on getting any more work.
rexf 3y ago
> I've posted this before, but I went to a new dentist one time and though I'd never had a cavity, the new dentist said I had nine, some of which were pretty bad and needed immediate treatment lest they require a root canal. Once I saw a new dentist who also told me I had several cavities. Look, my teeth health isn't perfect, but any dentist that tells me I have so many cavities is a big red flag. I ended up seeing another dentist and that dentist told me I didn't have any cavities. The inconsistency between dentists is really off the charts (per TFA). Also this quote from the article was telling: > At a dental school, I heard about a newsletter, The Profitable Dentist, and became a subscriber. From this newsletter, I discovered that there’s a whole business devoted to telling dentists how to build up the “million dollar practice.” Dentists are flocking to courses on how to generate more profits by maximizing the use of hygienists, extending credit, stepping up collection practices, and persuading patients to accept expensive restoration work instead of fillings. Look for any dentist trying to increase their bottom line: patients are not idiots. If a dentist tries to upsell me aggressively, I simply find another dentist. The reality is there are nearly endless dentists to choose from in my metropolitan area.
donatj 3y ago
I had a very similar experience. Hadn’t been to a dentist in a couple year, had a filling fall out and wanted it replaced. Old dentist didn’t take my new insurance. Tried the place my girlfriend had been using. Place insisted on an initial evaluation before they’d fix my tooth. Told me I had 14 cavities and laid out a financial plan for how I would be paying them off over the next decade. They were honestly strangely rude about the whole thing too. Really bad experience. I got a second opinion, they fixed my tooth there and then. Been seeing this dentist on and off for ten years with insurance changes. I have had 2 cavities in ten years.

j45 3y ago

What’s the saying.. At every meeting something is sold, either a reason why you’re buying, or a reason why you’re not buying.

leoqa 3y ago

I had a similar experience, got up sold on more frequent cleanings and they always found something to iterate on. I took their offer once to fill a “potential infection” and then recognized the pattern. They probably legitimately think the tooth may decay further - it probably won’t and you probably don’t need pre-emptive correction but they make more money and “fix” the problem for you so they may not see the ethical issue.

microtonal 3y ago
Frequent cleanings are nice though. As an avid tea drinker it's nice to have white teeth again once or twice a year. The insurance covers most of the cost, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
- elialbert 3y ago
  this worked on tea stains for me: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092SMPQQD https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092SMPQQD
- lost_tourist 3y ago
  once or twice isn't "frequent" in the USA. I'd guess you're in another country? Most Dentists here say 2 times a year. I had one who suggested every 4 months and I refused. I go every 9 months now, to split the difference between 6 and 12
  - stevehawk 3y ago
    well.. "twice a year".. but your insurance policy probably says 1 every 181 days.. just to rob you of the actual twice a year.. #america
    - pb7 3y ago
      There are 365.25 days in a year so insurance policy is quite generous in fact.
      - Scoundreller 3y ago
        ehhhhh, close. Just watch out when we don't have a leap year in 2100
    - phonon 3y ago
      Ummm...a year is longer than 2 x 181 days...so what is being robbed exactly?
      - kortilla 3y ago
        The comment was actually a critique of the US education system :)
      - brewdad 3y ago

somenameforme 3y ago

It's so weird, as I had a very near identical experience. I went through a cursory checkup then they sat me in some waiting room with a video on all sorts of dental diseases, apparently all of which I had. They needed to drill out some half dozen cavities, carry out a root canal, and I cannot even remember all what else. I noped out without even asking for a quote, and started skipping my annual exams. Some 20 years later I finally went to a dentist again, in a developing country no less, because I had a visible cavity - my first ever. It was quite scary given the elapsed time. $15 dollars, and about as many minutes, later all was said and done, with no other issues present.

Traubenfuchs 3y ago

Went to a new dentist after moving. She found two "small spots that could go bad if left untreated!" and "should be drilled and filled!". A year later I am still in pain some time. Dentists are fucking psychopaths and we are literally cattle at their mercy. I have no idea how to continue, how to find a dentist I can trust with my stupid teeth. I am terribly afraid of them now.

delfinom 3y ago
Find a dentist that'll actually do x-rays and show you the cavity on them. Mine does that. The cavities show pretty relatively easily on x-rays because the tooth density is compromised. If you are in pain, they either damaged the nerve which is bad as that could require a root canal eventually. Or they failed to clean out the cavity and it's infected. Either way, you should experiment with finding a dentist, perhaps go in for a cleaning every 6 months to check a dentist out. At not point are you obligated to do a cavity filling unless you are comfortable with it. Just decline any additional services beyond the cleaning.
- Traubenfuchs 3y ago
  Yeah next time I will get a second opinion. My old family dentist said everything was fine after I went back to her, so I don‘t think there is infection, also, my CRP is very low.
hinkley 3y ago
God the heat and cold sensitivities from that crank’s fillings bugged me for ten years before they settled down.
voisin 3y ago
Did you have the work done? I suspect you should go to a different dentist based on reviews from people you know. Also, try oil pulling and get some good higher end toothpaste. I had some sensitivity and after doing both everything is great.
randerson 3y ago
I've considered using lies to detect lies. Go to a dentist and lie to them about a particular tooth sometimes being sore. If they tell you there's nothing wrong with it, that's your new dentist.

programmertote 3y ago

Same thing. I am always good with flossing twice a day, brushing teeth twice a day (in fact, I spend ~10 mins brushing teeth gently and carefully every day). But the dentist in SF I visited 10 years ago "saw" 4 cavities and he showed me the X-rays, which I didn't know better I should have looked at carefully. But I got 4 fillings. Credit to him, those fillings never had any issue for the last 10+ years. But I went to a new dentist in FL a few months ago, and that guy told me to refill them because according to him, they are starting to crack (not sure how he saw them in grainy X-rays; he tried to show me one, but I couldn't see it) :D Anyway, I agreed to have them refilled since it's been a while and the cost was reasonable. Now one of the fillings he redid in my molar makes me feel uncomfortable when I chew things with it. I wrote up a more detailed experience about this in another comment in this post. I hope people see it and learn from it to not trust their dentists easily (esp. the ones you are visiting for the first time).

istjohn 3y ago
If you tell them it makes you uncomfortable when you chew, they will probably grind down the filling for you at no charge--at least mine did.
mweatherill 3y ago
So you had fillings which lasted 10 years which were replaced for reasonable cost. The dentist, an expert at reading radiographs, could see something that you couldn’t. What exactly were you expecting here?

2-718-281-828 3y ago

the dental elephant in the room is that our body can heal cavities to some extent. especially if you change your dental hygiene and diet. (also your dentist might have tried to scam you, of course)

hinkley 3y ago
There’s a process that is approved in Europe but not in the US last I looked. Involves UV light (or was it ozone?) and a bag over your tooth full of intense fluorine to first kill the cavity and then remineralize it. No drill.
peteradio 3y ago
Nuh uh! - your dentist probably

pcurve 3y ago

Some of these dentists should either have their license revoked or prosecuted for malpractice. I can believe what I just read.

hinkley 3y ago

Are you me? Was this dentist in Fremont, WA? I finally found a good dentist, but it was after I chipped one during the pandemic. It was never was done right in the first place, or the second place when I had it fixed. Lost that tooth unfortunately. But after ten years with no dentistry, I had only one other cavity, and of course some light gingivitis. They did not have an idea I hadn’t been for over ten years. I had great insurance at the time, and I was so shocked that I didn’t get a second opinion. After many years of retrospect, I have deep fissures which I got sealed years ago, and I suspect this hack saw shadows and assumed cavity instead of looking, because almost of the cavities she found were in the molars. If the news is awful always get several opinions. One person may know better ways to handle it.

quitit 3y ago

No one becomes a dentist because they're keen to pull shards of chalk-soft teeth from senior's mouths or enjoy dealing with the scent of rot from infection. It's a career for the money and it's rather easy to find dentists which are optimising for that. In medicine you treat the patient, not the picture. If your teeth seem fine, they probably are fine. You will always hear a lot of differing opinions about this from health care professionals and there are of course exceptions, but exceptions are exceptions. You must keep in mind that HCPs are people that see a disproportionate number of very unwell people and they are not immune to bias. Because of this bias, a common phrase in medicine is if you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras. It's a way of saying that most symptoms you see will be from ordinary ailments. I can think of too many cases where patients went through needless testing and anxiety only to eventually discover that it was all for nothing.

taocoyote 3y ago

Similar experience but I was in the military and I didn't have a choice to say no. I have 5 fillings. They wanted to schedule 2 more but I was due to be reassigned overseas. They tried to delay my reassignment over it. Eventually, they cleared my paperwork but made it clear I was to see the dentist at my new base as soon as possible. My new dentist says there is nothing wrong with my teeth whatsoever.

JeremyNT 3y ago

To back this up, I used to go to the dentist regularly as a child. I got the regular cleaning and such until I went to college and had to pay for things myself. I didn't have any dental insurance so I stopped going around then. Maybe 10 years later, after countless people warning me that I was gambling with my health by never going to a dentist, I thought I'd try again. I went to the local university dental school, where they need problems to work on. They told me I was totally fine. I haven't been to a dentist in the maybe 15 years since that experience. It turns out there is almost no evidence to support routine cleanings or consulting with a dentist. HN anecdotal data is not medical advice - but if you aren't suffering from any dental issues, it could be worth your time to do some research before you schedule your next dental appointment, and if you get a diagnosis of an issue it might be worth a second opinion. I highly recommend checking to see if your local dental school is taking appointments, because they have no incentive to push additional procedures on you (they can always find somebody who really needs it).

pedalpete 3y ago

Similar experience with an extra twist. I hadn't been to a dentist in 10 years, not even for a cleaning. I chipped tooth and went in to get it fixed. The dentist tried to upsell me on a ton of things that needed to be looked at. Never once mentioned that it looked like I hadn't had a cleaning in a while. I got my tooth fixed (just a bit of bonding), never had any of the other work he recommended done. I went to a new dentist a few months ago because I was starting to get some sensitivity and exposure at a gum, which I thought was really bad. He said it wasn't a big deal, fixed it up, but then says he wants to cap all of my teeth! Happy to be reading this and think I'll wait on getting any more work.

rexf 3y ago

> I've posted this before, but I went to a new dentist one time and though I'd never had a cavity, the new dentist said I had nine, some of which were pretty bad and needed immediate treatment lest they require a root canal. Once I saw a new dentist who also told me I had several cavities. Look, my teeth health isn't perfect, but any dentist that tells me I have so many cavities is a big red flag. I ended up seeing another dentist and that dentist told me I didn't have any cavities. The inconsistency between dentists is really off the charts (per TFA). Also this quote from the article was telling: > At a dental school, I heard about a newsletter, The Profitable Dentist, and became a subscriber. From this newsletter, I discovered that there’s a whole business devoted to telling dentists how to build up the “million dollar practice.” Dentists are flocking to courses on how to generate more profits by maximizing the use of hygienists, extending credit, stepping up collection practices, and persuading patients to accept expensive restoration work instead of fillings. Look for any dentist trying to increase their bottom line: patients are not idiots. If a dentist tries to upsell me aggressively, I simply find another dentist. The reality is there are nearly endless dentists to choose from in my metropolitan area.

donatj 3y ago

I had a very similar experience. Hadn’t been to a dentist in a couple year, had a filling fall out and wanted it replaced. Old dentist didn’t take my new insurance. Tried the place my girlfriend had been using. Place insisted on an initial evaluation before they’d fix my tooth. Told me I had 14 cavities and laid out a financial plan for how I would be paying them off over the next decade. They were honestly strangely rude about the whole thing too. Really bad experience. I got a second opinion, they fixed my tooth there and then. Been seeing this dentist on and off for ten years with insurance changes. I have had 2 cavities in ten years.