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10.2 … You agree that Zoom compiles and may compile Service Generated Data based on Customer Content and use of the Services and Software. You consent to Zoom’s

by isodev 3y ago

10.2 … You agree that Zoom compiles and may compile Service Generated Data based on Customer Content and use of the Services and Software. You consent to Zoom’s access, use, collection, creation, modification, distribution, processing, sharing, maintenance, and storage of Service Generated Data for any purpose, to the extent and in the manner permitted under applicable Law, including for the purpose of product and service development, marketing, analytics, quality assurance, machine learning or artificial intelligence (including for the purposes of training and tuning of algorithms and models), training, testing, improvement of the Services, Software, or Zoom’s other products, services, and software, or any combination thereof, and as otherwise provided in this Agreement

sjmulder 3y ago
"..for any purpose", how is this ever supposed to fly in the EU or UK? Should be opt-in, not in the small print, and entirely optional.
- jodrellblank 3y ago
  “…for any purpose, to the extent and in the manner permitted under applicable Law”
- jsnell 3y ago
  You're both misquoting and misunderstanding. Misquoting in that you clipped out the "to the extent and in the manner permitted under applicable Law". And misunderstanding since the text was talking "service generated data", not about "customer data". That's basically data generated by their system (e.g. debug logs). It's not the data you entered into the system (contact information), the calls you made, the chats you sent, etc. Also, the linked document is effectively a license for the intellectual property rights. The data protection side of things would be covered by the privacy policy[0]. This all seems pretty standard? [0] https://explore.zoom.us/en/privacy/ https://explore.zoom.us/en/privacy/
  - sjmulder 3y ago
    You're right, I was too quick to judge. Sorry.
  - a2128 3y ago
    I don't think they carved themselves out this permission for the purpose of training an AI on debug logs. For all we know "Zoom compiles Service Generated Data based on Customer Content" may include them compiling an mp4 of your call. That would seem to fall under the part of the definition that says "data that Zoom collects or generates in connection with your or your End Users’ use of the Services or Software"
  - AdieuToLogic 3y ago
    > And misunderstanding since the text was talking "service generated data", not about "customer data". Isn't that what section 10.4 covers and ultimately grants liberal rights to Zoom? > 10.4 Customer License Grant. You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create derivative works, and process Customer Content and to perform all acts with respect to the Customer Content: (i) as may be necessary for Zoom to provide the Services to you, including to support the Services; (ii) for the purpose of product and service development, marketing, analytics, quality assurance, machine learning, artificial intelligence, ...
    - jsnell 3y ago
      Yes, but that's not the section that this subthread was about, and the objection about "this can't be legal in the EU and UK" was based on the text quoted for service generated content which is different. And again, this is about granting an license on the intellectual property. It doesn't create any kind of end-run around the GDPR, and wouldn't e.g. count as consent for GDPR purposes.
  - GuB-42 3y ago
    Furthermore, as far as I know, the "to the extent and in the manner permitted under applicable Law" part is just a reminder. Laws always have priority over contracts, and any part of a contract that goes against the law can simply be ignored.
asplake 3y ago
Before that: > Customer Content does not include any telemetry data, product usage data, diagnostic data, and similar content or data that Zoom collects or generates in connection with your or your End Users’ use of the Services or Software (“Service Generated Data”). I could be wrong, but my take is that there is not all that much to see here
- smt88 3y ago
  Zoom is giving itself the right to collect video and audio of you that could be used today to deepfake your voice in a convincing way. It won't be long before the video deepfakes are convincing too. This is absolutely awful and terrifying.
  - geysersam 3y ago
    > does not include ... product usage data, diagnostic data, and similar content or data that Zoom collects or generates in connection with your ... use of the Services Did you not read the quote? Or are you telling me this still might include video and audio data? I feel like an medieval illiterate farmer reading latin...
    - smt88 3y ago
      The scope of content used for AI training seems (to me) like it only includes video and audio data. The list you reproduced above sounds like it's just metadata, like IP addresses, authentication logs, click tracking, etc.
    - dakial1 3y ago
      The ambiguity in this wording is on purpose, so it will be harder to tell in court (if someone sues them) that they were forbidden or allowed to do any specific thing. They don't detail what any of product usage data is, and you might think it is content, but later one they detail that they'll use user content (which they also don't detail what it is) for AI training...
- calibas 3y ago

by isodev 3y ago

sjmulder 3y ago

"..for any purpose", how is this ever supposed to fly in the EU or UK? Should be opt-in, not in the small print, and entirely optional.

jodrellblank 3y ago
“…for any purpose, to the extent and in the manner permitted under applicable Law”
jsnell 3y ago
You're both misquoting and misunderstanding. Misquoting in that you clipped out the "to the extent and in the manner permitted under applicable Law". And misunderstanding since the text was talking "service generated data", not about "customer data". That's basically data generated by their system (e.g. debug logs). It's not the data you entered into the system (contact information), the calls you made, the chats you sent, etc. Also, the linked document is effectively a license for the intellectual property rights. The data protection side of things would be covered by the privacy policy[0]. This all seems pretty standard? [0] https://explore.zoom.us/en/privacy/ https://explore.zoom.us/en/privacy/
- sjmulder 3y ago
  You're right, I was too quick to judge. Sorry.
- a2128 3y ago
  I don't think they carved themselves out this permission for the purpose of training an AI on debug logs. For all we know "Zoom compiles Service Generated Data based on Customer Content" may include them compiling an mp4 of your call. That would seem to fall under the part of the definition that says "data that Zoom collects or generates in connection with your or your End Users’ use of the Services or Software"
- AdieuToLogic 3y ago
  > And misunderstanding since the text was talking "service generated data", not about "customer data". Isn't that what section 10.4 covers and ultimately grants liberal rights to Zoom? > 10.4 Customer License Grant. You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create derivative works, and process Customer Content and to perform all acts with respect to the Customer Content: (i) as may be necessary for Zoom to provide the Services to you, including to support the Services; (ii) for the purpose of product and service development, marketing, analytics, quality assurance, machine learning, artificial intelligence, ...
  - jsnell 3y ago
    Yes, but that's not the section that this subthread was about, and the objection about "this can't be legal in the EU and UK" was based on the text quoted for service generated content which is different. And again, this is about granting an license on the intellectual property. It doesn't create any kind of end-run around the GDPR, and wouldn't e.g. count as consent for GDPR purposes.
- GuB-42 3y ago
  Furthermore, as far as I know, the "to the extent and in the manner permitted under applicable Law" part is just a reminder. Laws always have priority over contracts, and any part of a contract that goes against the law can simply be ignored.

asplake 3y ago

Before that: > Customer Content does not include any telemetry data, product usage data, diagnostic data, and similar content or data that Zoom collects or generates in connection with your or your End Users’ use of the Services or Software (“Service Generated Data”). I could be wrong, but my take is that there is not all that much to see here

smt88 3y ago
Zoom is giving itself the right to collect video and audio of you that could be used today to deepfake your voice in a convincing way. It won't be long before the video deepfakes are convincing too. This is absolutely awful and terrifying.
- geysersam 3y ago
  > does not include ... product usage data, diagnostic data, and similar content or data that Zoom collects or generates in connection with your ... use of the Services Did you not read the quote? Or are you telling me this still might include video and audio data? I feel like an medieval illiterate farmer reading latin...
  - smt88 3y ago
    The scope of content used for AI training seems (to me) like it only includes video and audio data. The list you reproduced above sounds like it's just metadata, like IP addresses, authentication logs, click tracking, etc.
  - dakial1 3y ago
    The ambiguity in this wording is on purpose, so it will be harder to tell in court (if someone sues them) that they were forbidden or allowed to do any specific thing. They don't detail what any of product usage data is, and you might think it is content, but later one they detail that they'll use user content (which they also don't detail what it is) for AI training...
calibas 3y ago