3 ms·

I used to think that between Lord of the Rings, Earthsea, and Narnia, all of fantasy was tapped out. Harry Potter did nothing to dispel this idea. Only Grossman

I used to think that between Lord of the Rings, Earthsea, and Narnia, all of fantasy was tapped out. Harry Potter did nothing to dispel this idea. Only Grossman's The Magicians has proved my thinking wrong.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago
The three classic works of fantasy you mention don’t have the twist (as in Vance’s Tales of the Dying Earth) where the seemingly fantastical world turns out to be a far-future version of our own world. Or, in Delaney’s Neverÿon series, a distant-past version. So, there was room for new developments in fantasy outside those big three you list. But I definitely understand your sentiment. I remember reading the first book of Stephen R. Donaldson’s “Thomas Covenant” series and quickly abandoned it because it followed Tolkien too closely.
- MattPalmer1086 3y ago
  Ah, Covenant is really distinct from Tolkien. Not so much in the world building (giants, etc) but in the appalling pain and self obsession of Thomas Covenant. It took me 3 attempts to finish the first book, but after that I was hooked for the first two series.
- snowwrestler 3y ago
  The first Covenant trilogy intentionally mirrors Tolkien in order to provide a familiar “fantasy” background against which to cast a completely non-fantasy character: Thomas Covenant, grumpy disbeliever. It’s an intentional choice. (The second trilogy abandons this constraint and is a much better fantasy story for it.)
AlotOfReading 3y ago
There's lots of excellent fantasy out there beyond the big names. Wolfe's Book of the New Sun is a good example of a very creative series, though it can be much harder to read.
- bediger4000 3y ago
  Read it and enjoyed it. I have it filed under "science fiction", however.
kadoban 3y ago
> I used to think that between Lord of the Rings, Earthsea, and Narnia, all of fantasy was tapped out. Depends what you mean by tapped out I suppose. There's great fantasy still being written. Some of my favorites vaguely recently are the Malazan Book of the Fallen, Mistborn, and the Stormlight Archive serieses.
- CatWChainsaw 3y ago
  Sanderson's popularity automatically polarizes people against him sometimes, but I also really like his stuff.
astrange 3y ago
There's Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell. There's isn't much else though, just that. (And Fate/Grand Order, but you don't want to get into that.)
philipkglass 3y ago
Did you ever read Crowley's Little, Big? If those series you name form different columns in the periodic table of fantasy, I would say this one novel is in its own column.
WJW 3y ago
Man here I was thinking The Magicians drew way too much on Harry Potter. Spoilers: I did really enjoy the way the original novel "peaked" several times, each time leaving me thinking "well they beat the big bad, now what" but then there is much much more each time and the main character reaches an entirely new level of mastery they hadn't even imagined before. It's an interesting metaphor for life.
- creer 3y ago
  I thought it was Harry Potter done right. Very right. The characters are youths with much more suitably fucked up emotions, drives, hormones, carelessness, not to mention lack of project etc. The magic is steeped in mystery and research and dangers - it's a young, nowhere near fully understood field. The school (mostly) fits all that. By contrast Harry Potter is entirely too focused on making the books alternately fun and gloomy, with a simpler and wider-audience magic. Entertaining but empty.
SamBam 3y ago
Huh, my reaction to The Magicians was "let's do Harry Potter where everyone swears a lot and are completely unlikable, and then throw Narnia in as well." It felt really derivative to me. For me, the best fantasy series of all (including those you mentioned, all of which I loved) was The Golden Compass series. Not sure if everyone would call it fantasy, but I think it is. But it's incredible world-building, incredible plotting, incredible characters, and philosophy and religion and ethics thrown in.
- snowwrestler 3y ago
  That trilogy is usually referred to as His Dark Materials, and I agree it belongs on the top shelf of fantasy series.
  - CatWChainsaw 3y ago
    It's kind of a shame the new Book of Dust trilogy just isn't doing it for me. La Belle Sauvage was interesting, but The Secret Commonwealth felt like it tried too hard, and also undermined Lyra's "secret ability" to an insulting degree.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago

The three classic works of fantasy you mention don’t have the twist (as in Vance’s Tales of the Dying Earth) where the seemingly fantastical world turns out to be a far-future version of our own world. Or, in Delaney’s Neverÿon series, a distant-past version. So, there was room for new developments in fantasy outside those big three you list. But I definitely understand your sentiment. I remember reading the first book of Stephen R. Donaldson’s “Thomas Covenant” series and quickly abandoned it because it followed Tolkien too closely.

MattPalmer1086 3y ago
Ah, Covenant is really distinct from Tolkien. Not so much in the world building (giants, etc) but in the appalling pain and self obsession of Thomas Covenant. It took me 3 attempts to finish the first book, but after that I was hooked for the first two series.
snowwrestler 3y ago
The first Covenant trilogy intentionally mirrors Tolkien in order to provide a familiar “fantasy” background against which to cast a completely non-fantasy character: Thomas Covenant, grumpy disbeliever. It’s an intentional choice. (The second trilogy abandons this constraint and is a much better fantasy story for it.)

AlotOfReading 3y ago

There's lots of excellent fantasy out there beyond the big names. Wolfe's Book of the New Sun is a good example of a very creative series, though it can be much harder to read.

bediger4000 3y ago
Read it and enjoyed it. I have it filed under "science fiction", however.

kadoban 3y ago

> I used to think that between Lord of the Rings, Earthsea, and Narnia, all of fantasy was tapped out. Depends what you mean by tapped out I suppose. There's great fantasy still being written. Some of my favorites vaguely recently are the Malazan Book of the Fallen, Mistborn, and the Stormlight Archive serieses.

CatWChainsaw 3y ago
Sanderson's popularity automatically polarizes people against him sometimes, but I also really like his stuff.

astrange 3y ago

There's Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell. There's isn't much else though, just that. (And Fate/Grand Order, but you don't want to get into that.)

philipkglass 3y ago

Did you ever read Crowley's Little, Big? If those series you name form different columns in the periodic table of fantasy, I would say this one novel is in its own column.

WJW 3y ago

Man here I was thinking The Magicians drew way too much on Harry Potter. Spoilers: I did really enjoy the way the original novel "peaked" several times, each time leaving me thinking "well they beat the big bad, now what" but then there is much much more each time and the main character reaches an entirely new level of mastery they hadn't even imagined before. It's an interesting metaphor for life.

creer 3y ago
I thought it was Harry Potter done right. Very right. The characters are youths with much more suitably fucked up emotions, drives, hormones, carelessness, not to mention lack of project etc. The magic is steeped in mystery and research and dangers - it's a young, nowhere near fully understood field. The school (mostly) fits all that. By contrast Harry Potter is entirely too focused on making the books alternately fun and gloomy, with a simpler and wider-audience magic. Entertaining but empty.

SamBam 3y ago

Huh, my reaction to The Magicians was "let's do Harry Potter where everyone swears a lot and are completely unlikable, and then throw Narnia in as well." It felt really derivative to me. For me, the best fantasy series of all (including those you mentioned, all of which I loved) was The Golden Compass series. Not sure if everyone would call it fantasy, but I think it is. But it's incredible world-building, incredible plotting, incredible characters, and philosophy and religion and ethics thrown in.

snowwrestler 3y ago
That trilogy is usually referred to as His Dark Materials, and I agree it belongs on the top shelf of fantasy series.
- CatWChainsaw 3y ago
  It's kind of a shame the new Book of Dust trilogy just isn't doing it for me. La Belle Sauvage was interesting, but The Secret Commonwealth felt like it tried too hard, and also undermined Lyra's "secret ability" to an insulting degree.