7 ms·

Actually, we once accepted a group wearing suits. It was for the very first summer batch in 2005. We told them to ditch the suits for Demo Day.

by jl 15y ago

williamcotton 15y ago
Why ditch the suits? I love wearing a suit. Why is our industry so adverse to celebrating the art of clothing and in turn the aesthetics of the human form? Why is it OK to be wearing ill-fitting jeans and an oversized stained t-shirt from a tech conference? Is it thought that if someone is in to dressing well that they've taken time away from learning a new technology or focusing on their product? Disclaimer: I dress in a somewhat dandyish manner.
- waterlesscloud 15y ago
  The simple answer is that it's identity group signalling. This is the costume which indicates you belong to our group. That is the costume which indicates you belong to their group. Not necessarily rational, but certainly one aspect of how people work.
  - paulgerhardt 15y ago
    It's no coincidence that fashion and faction are etymological doublets.
  - Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
    And there's nothing even vaguely approaching a hacker uniform is there? looks around the office at a sea of jeans and t-shirts The issue with this argument is that almost anything you can say about suits applies to all clothing. It's no co-incidence that during the dot com boom managers started dressing down. Did that make them better managers than when they wore suits? Or were the good ones still good and the bad ones still bad, they'd just adopted a different uniform? If you pick on a particular uniform (in this case suits) rather than the concept that uniform matters then you don't solve the problem you just move or hide it.
- nupark2 15y ago
  Suits are generally overbearing and a seeming affectation if you wear one in what others assume to be a casual environment.
- jes5199 15y ago
  if you show up wearing a suit, I'll assume you're a lawyer or an MBA.
  - Ecio78 15y ago
    And that is a problem?
    - Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
      Yes. It's lazy thinking. The whole ethos of casual dress at work was that it didn't matter what you wore, it was about what you did and thought and that we shouldn't make assumptions based on something so superficial. That's now flipped and become some form of inverted snobbery where the people who objected to being judged on what they were wearing (or not wearing) are now doing exactly the same. The point isn't that wearing a suit or jeans or whatever is good, bad or indifferent. It's that it doesn't matter.
      - philwelch 15y ago
        If it didn't matter what you wore, no one would wear suits. They're either uncomfortable and impractical or incredibly expensive, and sometimes both. The only real reasons to wear a suit involve either social pressure to do so or narcissism.
        ramblerman 15y ago
        " The only real reasons to wear a suit involve either social pressure to do so or narcissism. " You say that as if it is an absolute truth. This might be true for you, but it certainly doesn't hold for everyone.
        philwelch 15y ago
        My argument should be pretty easy to refute then; name one reason, other than social pressure or narcissism, to wear a suit.
- shrikant 15y ago
  There's a whole spectrum of clothing between "suit" and "ill-fitting jeans and an oversized stained t-shirt from a tech conference" that is tasteful, casual and professional.
- seagreen 15y ago
  It's basically wrong for the same reasons not wearing a suit is wrong at a business meeting - it makes you stand out for something other than your accomplishments. A businessman's uniform is a suit, and a hacker's is a hoodie, and there's not much anyone can do about it in the short run.
- gavanwoolery 15y ago
  If you wear a suit, cut off the arms and work out until you have rad biceps. Under no other circumstance will you be accepted.
- einhverfr 15y ago
  I think there is nothing wrong with it as long as you are conscious of the image it sends, and are willing to counter the obvious negative stereotypes, namely that you are not a hacker, not part of hacker culture, and therefore incapable of starting a tech startup..... ;-) Of course, low expectations can be made to work to one's advantage.
- meow 15y ago
  May be the same reason 'lorem ipsum' is used in web templates :)
- scott_s 15y ago
  I'm going to go against conventional hacker wisdom and say that if you are comfortable in a suit, wear a suit. As long as you are also completely comfortable being the only one around in a suit - and that is an open question. I think part of the problem with hackers wearing suits is that they tend not to be comfortable in them, and they tend not to fit well, so they don't look quite right in them. Personally, I like to wear nice jeans with nice shoes and a nice dress shirt, all which fit me well. It's somewhere between casual and dressy that's not the standard "business casual," and it's a style of dress I am comfortable in.
- mattiask 15y ago
  If you dress differently because of what other people think then perhaps you're not the rebel hacker you think you are ;) that includes not wearing a suit if you're comfortably in one. Personally I don't get get why not more people wear suits, you have lots of pockets for your gear, they make dressing well easy (as long as your suits fit you) and effortless. Just go suit and a nice t-shirt to dress semi-casual, so suit up! :)
  - bane 15y ago
    "Personally I don't get get why not more people wear suits, you have lots of pockets for your gear" Or just wear cargo pants.
    - camz 15y ago
      You're honestly making the argument personal. There's nothing inherently wrong with wearing a suit. If people are content, comfortable and happy wearing what they have, then why bother all of your ad hominem comments. We don't need reminders that the 20th century has created the "cargo pants." We know that cargo pants exist, but maybe they prefer a suit? I've acknowledged your point no need to berate everyone down the line as well =/
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      Cargo pants are baggy and in my experience tend to get caught on furniture. (Not to mention they make you look like some sort of ex-marine wilderness survival nut or something)
- robomartin 15y ago
  The thought that someone like Steve Jobs would have been rejected or looked at oddly for wearing a suit is disconcerting. Clothing is one of those odd and weird things that humanity might just shake out of the culture eventually. It is only of meaning to small minds. It's like the priest who wears dignified religious clothing while hiding a darker side. Or the executive sporting $3,000 suits while causing financial damage to a nation. Or the clean-cut white kid wearing nice jeans and t-shirts while selling drugs around the corner. Or the cop wearing his uniform while committing a crime. Be careful about using clothing to judge and form opinion. Now, I happen to think that a nice (not too expensive) suit can look really good. So can a nice pair of jeans and a t-shirt (particularly on a woman that can, shall we say, enhance the garments --call me a pig). I had to wear a suit my entire young life because I was sent to private schools. What this means is that I am just as comfortable in a suit as I am in jeans. I like wearing a suit for the right occasion. But if I have to code for 16 hours straight you are going to find me in sweatpants, and old t-shirt and sandals.
  - seagreen 15y ago
    This is funny because I just had a long conversation with a friend about a startup idea. It would turn your smartphone into a beacon that broadcast your profile and your interests to the world, so that you could look around a coffeeshop or whatever and see the people that share the same interests and then have great conversations with them. Then I realized it had already been done, and it's called clothing. I still think digital "clothing" would be cool, and I get that there's a lot wrong with the way we use clothes to signal today, but anything that adds so much bandwidth to communication between people can't be all bad.
    - guynamedloren 15y ago
      Actually, its called highlight.
      - seagreen 15y ago
        Cool, thanks. It's actually a slightly different idea though, because (as far as I understand it) highlight doesn't signal your interests, it just shows who you're connected to. Maybe more like a class ring than actual clothing?
- Mankhool 15y ago
  I agree. In Vancouver (slob city) people for the most part don't even dress up to go out. They ask why should I? Here is an answer: Dressing down, ubiquitously known as "being comfortable", says that you don’t care about how you look, as if your appearance were an entirely private matter that has nothing to do with anyone else. It’s the exact opposite: what you wear is part of the visible environment, as relevant as the architecture, the decor, the food on the table, the scents in the air. http://betweenmypeers.com/2007/09/20/why-dress-up-for-social-occasions/ http://betweenmypeers.com/2007/09/20/why-dress-up-for-social...
  - jarek 15y ago
    I think there is a fair distance between caring how you dress and caring about architecture. For one thing, architecture tends to be more permanent and won't exit the train at the next stop. I don't go into restaurants I don't like and criticize their decor and their food, so I'm not sure why I should care about what others wear.
- philwelch 15y ago
  Hackers and engineers believe in substance over style.
  - jmduke 15y ago
    Style is substance, unless you think that things like user experience are meaningless buzzwords and the command line is the only proper way to interact with the internet.
    - philwelch 15y ago
      This is one of the pitfalls that hackers and engineers fall into, yes. But in good user experience, form still follows function, not the other way around. "Form follows function" is simply another way of saying "substance over style".
- bane 15y ago
  It's simple. To anybody who appreciates the pragmatic of "what works", suits look silly. Let's break a suit down: jacket: why? are you cold? there are better garments, made of better material that can keep you warm in a variety of colder than comfortable climates. vest (optional): why? it makes you look like a poker dealer, but you forgot your green rimmed sunshade. tie: supposedly to add some color, but looks like a noose, or a lead rope used to guide livestock around (the signal I always get from a tie), may as well just wear a shirt with some color. Predecessors to the tie are generally regarded as silly looking today. Nobody takes an ascot seriously today, bolos look ridiculous, bow ties instantly turn somebody into a fussy professor, and nobody would be caught dead these days in a cravat http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Louis1667.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Louis1667... oxford or similar shirt: oh where to start....buttons, from a time when fabrics couldn't be manufactured with the properties of jersey. Collar, to catch sweat from...all the sweating you're doing from the 3 layers of unnecessary clothing you're wearing. Sleeves, long to be proper, even if it's hot, buttons on the end, because again another vestigial holdover from primitive fabrics, or french cuffs, because who doesn't like to assemble their sleeves when they get dressed? Oh, and it has to be tucked in, leading to constant retucks throughout the day, or embarrassing shirt stays clipped to your socks or looped under your feet looking like some kind of lingerie reject. Toss out that mess and we're left with ridiculous, overly expensive uncomfortable shoes that need constant maintenance, black socks and what are essentially just expensive slacks. (edit: I'm frequently caught wearing suits for various work reasons, and I feel like an idiot every time I "suit up")
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    Many people, with a nice suit, feel quite good. Do not misunderstand the pragmatic importance of feeling good about yourself. As a more accessible example: Why do you think more people wear shoes with shoe laces instead of Velcro straps?
    - philwelch 15y ago
      Shoe laces are more functional.

Actually, we once accepted a group wearing suits. It was for the very first summer batch in 2005. We told them to ditch the suits for Demo Day.

by jl 15y ago

Actually, we once accepted a group wearing suits. It was for the very first summer batch in 2005. We told them to ditch the suits for Demo Day.

williamcotton 15y ago

Why ditch the suits? I love wearing a suit. Why is our industry so adverse to celebrating the art of clothing and in turn the aesthetics of the human form? Why is it OK to be wearing ill-fitting jeans and an oversized stained t-shirt from a tech conference? Is it thought that if someone is in to dressing well that they've taken time away from learning a new technology or focusing on their product? Disclaimer: I dress in a somewhat dandyish manner.

waterlesscloud 15y ago
The simple answer is that it's identity group signalling. This is the costume which indicates you belong to our group. That is the costume which indicates you belong to their group. Not necessarily rational, but certainly one aspect of how people work.
- paulgerhardt 15y ago
  It's no coincidence that fashion and faction are etymological doublets.
- Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
  And there's nothing even vaguely approaching a hacker uniform is there? looks around the office at a sea of jeans and t-shirts The issue with this argument is that almost anything you can say about suits applies to all clothing. It's no co-incidence that during the dot com boom managers started dressing down. Did that make them better managers than when they wore suits? Or were the good ones still good and the bad ones still bad, they'd just adopted a different uniform? If you pick on a particular uniform (in this case suits) rather than the concept that uniform matters then you don't solve the problem you just move or hide it.
nupark2 15y ago
Suits are generally overbearing and a seeming affectation if you wear one in what others assume to be a casual environment.
jes5199 15y ago
if you show up wearing a suit, I'll assume you're a lawyer or an MBA.
- Ecio78 15y ago
  And that is a problem?
  - Tyrannosaurs 15y ago
    Yes. It's lazy thinking. The whole ethos of casual dress at work was that it didn't matter what you wore, it was about what you did and thought and that we shouldn't make assumptions based on something so superficial. That's now flipped and become some form of inverted snobbery where the people who objected to being judged on what they were wearing (or not wearing) are now doing exactly the same. The point isn't that wearing a suit or jeans or whatever is good, bad or indifferent. It's that it doesn't matter.
    - philwelch 15y ago
      If it didn't matter what you wore, no one would wear suits. They're either uncomfortable and impractical or incredibly expensive, and sometimes both. The only real reasons to wear a suit involve either social pressure to do so or narcissism.
      - ramblerman 15y ago
        " The only real reasons to wear a suit involve either social pressure to do so or narcissism. " You say that as if it is an absolute truth. This might be true for you, but it certainly doesn't hold for everyone.
        philwelch 15y ago
        My argument should be pretty easy to refute then; name one reason, other than social pressure or narcissism, to wear a suit.
shrikant 15y ago
There's a whole spectrum of clothing between "suit" and "ill-fitting jeans and an oversized stained t-shirt from a tech conference" that is tasteful, casual and professional.
seagreen 15y ago
It's basically wrong for the same reasons not wearing a suit is wrong at a business meeting - it makes you stand out for something other than your accomplishments. A businessman's uniform is a suit, and a hacker's is a hoodie, and there's not much anyone can do about it in the short run.
gavanwoolery 15y ago
If you wear a suit, cut off the arms and work out until you have rad biceps. Under no other circumstance will you be accepted.
einhverfr 15y ago
I think there is nothing wrong with it as long as you are conscious of the image it sends, and are willing to counter the obvious negative stereotypes, namely that you are not a hacker, not part of hacker culture, and therefore incapable of starting a tech startup..... ;-) Of course, low expectations can be made to work to one's advantage.
meow 15y ago
May be the same reason 'lorem ipsum' is used in web templates :)
scott_s 15y ago
I'm going to go against conventional hacker wisdom and say that if you are comfortable in a suit, wear a suit. As long as you are also completely comfortable being the only one around in a suit - and that is an open question. I think part of the problem with hackers wearing suits is that they tend not to be comfortable in them, and they tend not to fit well, so they don't look quite right in them. Personally, I like to wear nice jeans with nice shoes and a nice dress shirt, all which fit me well. It's somewhere between casual and dressy that's not the standard "business casual," and it's a style of dress I am comfortable in.
mattiask 15y ago
If you dress differently because of what other people think then perhaps you're not the rebel hacker you think you are ;) that includes not wearing a suit if you're comfortably in one. Personally I don't get get why not more people wear suits, you have lots of pockets for your gear, they make dressing well easy (as long as your suits fit you) and effortless. Just go suit and a nice t-shirt to dress semi-casual, so suit up! :)
- bane 15y ago
  "Personally I don't get get why not more people wear suits, you have lots of pockets for your gear" Or just wear cargo pants.
  - camz 15y ago
    You're honestly making the argument personal. There's nothing inherently wrong with wearing a suit. If people are content, comfortable and happy wearing what they have, then why bother all of your ad hominem comments. We don't need reminders that the 20th century has created the "cargo pants." We know that cargo pants exist, but maybe they prefer a suit? I've acknowledged your point no need to berate everyone down the line as well =/
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    Cargo pants are baggy and in my experience tend to get caught on furniture. (Not to mention they make you look like some sort of ex-marine wilderness survival nut or something)
robomartin 15y ago
The thought that someone like Steve Jobs would have been rejected or looked at oddly for wearing a suit is disconcerting. Clothing is one of those odd and weird things that humanity might just shake out of the culture eventually. It is only of meaning to small minds. It's like the priest who wears dignified religious clothing while hiding a darker side. Or the executive sporting $3,000 suits while causing financial damage to a nation. Or the clean-cut white kid wearing nice jeans and t-shirts while selling drugs around the corner. Or the cop wearing his uniform while committing a crime. Be careful about using clothing to judge and form opinion. Now, I happen to think that a nice (not too expensive) suit can look really good. So can a nice pair of jeans and a t-shirt (particularly on a woman that can, shall we say, enhance the garments --call me a pig). I had to wear a suit my entire young life because I was sent to private schools. What this means is that I am just as comfortable in a suit as I am in jeans. I like wearing a suit for the right occasion. But if I have to code for 16 hours straight you are going to find me in sweatpants, and old t-shirt and sandals.
- seagreen 15y ago
  This is funny because I just had a long conversation with a friend about a startup idea. It would turn your smartphone into a beacon that broadcast your profile and your interests to the world, so that you could look around a coffeeshop or whatever and see the people that share the same interests and then have great conversations with them. Then I realized it had already been done, and it's called clothing. I still think digital "clothing" would be cool, and I get that there's a lot wrong with the way we use clothes to signal today, but anything that adds so much bandwidth to communication between people can't be all bad.
  - guynamedloren 15y ago
    Actually, its called highlight.
    - seagreen 15y ago
      Cool, thanks. It's actually a slightly different idea though, because (as far as I understand it) highlight doesn't signal your interests, it just shows who you're connected to. Maybe more like a class ring than actual clothing?
Mankhool 15y ago
I agree. In Vancouver (slob city) people for the most part don't even dress up to go out. They ask why should I? Here is an answer: Dressing down, ubiquitously known as "being comfortable", says that you don’t care about how you look, as if your appearance were an entirely private matter that has nothing to do with anyone else. It’s the exact opposite: what you wear is part of the visible environment, as relevant as the architecture, the decor, the food on the table, the scents in the air. http://betweenmypeers.com/2007/09/20/why-dress-up-for-social-occasions/ http://betweenmypeers.com/2007/09/20/why-dress-up-for-social...
- jarek 15y ago
  I think there is a fair distance between caring how you dress and caring about architecture. For one thing, architecture tends to be more permanent and won't exit the train at the next stop. I don't go into restaurants I don't like and criticize their decor and their food, so I'm not sure why I should care about what others wear.
philwelch 15y ago
Hackers and engineers believe in substance over style.
- jmduke 15y ago
  Style is substance, unless you think that things like user experience are meaningless buzzwords and the command line is the only proper way to interact with the internet.
  - philwelch 15y ago
    This is one of the pitfalls that hackers and engineers fall into, yes. But in good user experience, form still follows function, not the other way around. "Form follows function" is simply another way of saying "substance over style".
bane 15y ago
It's simple. To anybody who appreciates the pragmatic of "what works", suits look silly. Let's break a suit down: jacket: why? are you cold? there are better garments, made of better material that can keep you warm in a variety of colder than comfortable climates. vest (optional): why? it makes you look like a poker dealer, but you forgot your green rimmed sunshade. tie: supposedly to add some color, but looks like a noose, or a lead rope used to guide livestock around (the signal I always get from a tie), may as well just wear a shirt with some color. Predecessors to the tie are generally regarded as silly looking today. Nobody takes an ascot seriously today, bolos look ridiculous, bow ties instantly turn somebody into a fussy professor, and nobody would be caught dead these days in a cravat http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Louis1667.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Louis1667... oxford or similar shirt: oh where to start....buttons, from a time when fabrics couldn't be manufactured with the properties of jersey. Collar, to catch sweat from...all the sweating you're doing from the 3 layers of unnecessary clothing you're wearing. Sleeves, long to be proper, even if it's hot, buttons on the end, because again another vestigial holdover from primitive fabrics, or french cuffs, because who doesn't like to assemble their sleeves when they get dressed? Oh, and it has to be tucked in, leading to constant retucks throughout the day, or embarrassing shirt stays clipped to your socks or looped under your feet looking like some kind of lingerie reject. Toss out that mess and we're left with ridiculous, overly expensive uncomfortable shoes that need constant maintenance, black socks and what are essentially just expensive slacks. (edit: I'm frequently caught wearing suits for various work reasons, and I feel like an idiot every time I "suit up")
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  Many people, with a nice suit, feel quite good. Do not misunderstand the pragmatic importance of feeling good about yourself. As a more accessible example: Why do you think more people wear shoes with shoe laces instead of Velcro straps?
  - philwelch 15y ago
    Shoe laces are more functional.