4 ms·

Last year I read The Double Helix and The Code Breaker within a few months of each other, and what really stood out to me is that while we celebrate the first p

Last year I read The Double Helix and The Code Breaker within a few months of each other, and what really stood out to me is that while we celebrate the first person who discovers something, in reality there were several teams all racing to the finish line, and were sometimes days or only even hours behind in presenting their findings. Yet only one team gets the accolades and their names in textbooks, the others are a mere footnote at best. This was my first time reading about the history of discoveries like this, and I guess prior I thought these celebrated names had moved humanity forward by decades if not centuries by connecting the dots of the runes of the universe, but the reality is really very different.

jacquesm 3y ago
It's even more stark when you come to realize how big the pyramid is just under a new scientific breakthrough. But there are also examples of people that stayed the course against common wisdom (and sometimes while being derided) who eventually succeeded in what they were doing. This is to me the kind of science that is most deserving of prizes, to encourage others to keep looking even when the answers are far from obvious.
- kevstev 3y ago
  I feel that way about string theory. I am merely an airmchair physicist, though I did have a physics minor in college, but it just feels... wrong. Ever more layers of complexity to explain away holes, and no real predictive power. But at least as of ~10-15 (and maybe still today, I have lost touch with that world) years ago, saying this in any serious setting would not make you any friends, nor get you any funding. It feels to me that we have likely squandered decades of brain power going down that hole. I hope there are still those toiling away doing unpopular work, that can make a breakthrough....
  - ep103 3y ago
    I'm far outside of these social circles nowadays, but I stumbled across this youtube video of a phd candidate talking about string theory recently (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kya_LXa_y1E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kya_LXa_y1E), and it seemed to imply that the pendulum in those social circles is swinging back again.
    - d0mine 3y ago
      The presentation style for a science topic is off putting: "they lied to us" "just my opinion" If there is an evidence then there is no "my opinion"--provide it. If you can't provide it, then don't make loud disparaging statements. Such style should be left for social media "influencers" where "controversy is cash"
mitthrowaway2 3y ago
Two independent research groups, one from Japan and one from the US, simultaneously published their discovery of the NdFeB magnet in the same issue of the same journal.
- bsmith89 3y ago
  I don't know this particular story, but — FWIW — it's common for different teams working in the same field to be aware of each other's manuscripts and impending submissions. When two teams are about to submit papers with the same discovery, they'll often work with an editor to put it in the same journal issue. By coordinating a simultaneous publication they can get extra publicity for the discovery, both get the first-mover advantage in citations (both papers get cited by everyone), and also get breathing room to be fully rigorous and write the best possible paper.
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    that is a nice resolution of the prisoner's dilemma
bglazer 3y ago
Another example that might be of interest is the use of neural networks in Monte Carlo Tree Search. In 2017 there were two papers published showing how effective the combination of NN’s and MCTS are for planning in board games. One is an algorithm called ExIT published by Anthony et al, it showed excellent performance on a somewhat obscure board game called Hex. The authors using a typical academic lab setup to achieve this. It has a very impressive 300ish citations. The other paper is AlphaGo, which has about 10k citations and a Netflix documentary. There are some algorithmic differences that probably make AlphaGo strictly better than ExIT but the big difference seems to mostly be that one group had like a thousand GPUs for a month.
- azeirah 3y ago
  Another big difference is Google's name and marketing behind it. It had its own website.
- alanbernstein 3y ago
  If this is the Hex game I know, the one on Wikipedia, I think you're kind of sweeping a lot under the rug by equating Go and Hex.
marcosdumay 3y ago
By the way, that's one important problem with patents.
hyperthesis 3y ago
A community of giants. Winner takes all is not fair, but it is very motivating to the vanity of human nature. i.e. untrue, but effective
kitd 3y ago
Quite similar is Darwin and Wallace presenting their evolutionary theories together. Darwin had been working on his for much longer, but spurred by the possibility of losing priority, he presented Origin of Species as a book rather than waiting for formal review + journal publication.

jacquesm 3y ago

It's even more stark when you come to realize how big the pyramid is just under a new scientific breakthrough. But there are also examples of people that stayed the course against common wisdom (and sometimes while being derided) who eventually succeeded in what they were doing. This is to me the kind of science that is most deserving of prizes, to encourage others to keep looking even when the answers are far from obvious.

kevstev 3y ago
I feel that way about string theory. I am merely an airmchair physicist, though I did have a physics minor in college, but it just feels... wrong. Ever more layers of complexity to explain away holes, and no real predictive power. But at least as of ~10-15 (and maybe still today, I have lost touch with that world) years ago, saying this in any serious setting would not make you any friends, nor get you any funding. It feels to me that we have likely squandered decades of brain power going down that hole. I hope there are still those toiling away doing unpopular work, that can make a breakthrough....
- ep103 3y ago
  I'm far outside of these social circles nowadays, but I stumbled across this youtube video of a phd candidate talking about string theory recently (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kya_LXa_y1E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kya_LXa_y1E), and it seemed to imply that the pendulum in those social circles is swinging back again.
  - d0mine 3y ago
    The presentation style for a science topic is off putting: "they lied to us" "just my opinion" If there is an evidence then there is no "my opinion"--provide it. If you can't provide it, then don't make loud disparaging statements. Such style should be left for social media "influencers" where "controversy is cash"

mitthrowaway2 3y ago

Two independent research groups, one from Japan and one from the US, simultaneously published their discovery of the NdFeB magnet in the same issue of the same journal.

bsmith89 3y ago
I don't know this particular story, but — FWIW — it's common for different teams working in the same field to be aware of each other's manuscripts and impending submissions. When two teams are about to submit papers with the same discovery, they'll often work with an editor to put it in the same journal issue. By coordinating a simultaneous publication they can get extra publicity for the discovery, both get the first-mover advantage in citations (both papers get cited by everyone), and also get breathing room to be fully rigorous and write the best possible paper.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
  that is a nice resolution of the prisoner's dilemma

bglazer 3y ago

Another example that might be of interest is the use of neural networks in Monte Carlo Tree Search. In 2017 there were two papers published showing how effective the combination of NN’s and MCTS are for planning in board games. One is an algorithm called ExIT published by Anthony et al, it showed excellent performance on a somewhat obscure board game called Hex. The authors using a typical academic lab setup to achieve this. It has a very impressive 300ish citations. The other paper is AlphaGo, which has about 10k citations and a Netflix documentary. There are some algorithmic differences that probably make AlphaGo strictly better than ExIT but the big difference seems to mostly be that one group had like a thousand GPUs for a month.

azeirah 3y ago
Another big difference is Google's name and marketing behind it. It had its own website.
alanbernstein 3y ago
If this is the Hex game I know, the one on Wikipedia, I think you're kind of sweeping a lot under the rug by equating Go and Hex.

marcosdumay 3y ago

By the way, that's one important problem with patents.

hyperthesis 3y ago

A community of giants. Winner takes all is not fair, but it is very motivating to the vanity of human nature. i.e. untrue, but effective

kitd 3y ago

Quite similar is Darwin and Wallace presenting their evolutionary theories together. Darwin had been working on his for much longer, but spurred by the possibility of losing priority, he presented Origin of Species as a book rather than waiting for formal review + journal publication.