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Don't we have self-driving cars operating as taxicabs today in SF?

• fragmede 3y ago
  Cruise is currently operating self-driving "taxi" service between the hours of 9pm and 5:30 am throughout the city to members of the general public who've waited on the wait-list. Waymo is too, in Phoenix, and supposedly SF too, but I don't know anybody personally of the general public in SF that has ridden one.
  • kortilla 3y ago
    So yes, we have L5 driving. The cars don’t have drivers, regardless of some time restrictions.
    • Dylan16807 3y ago
      Level 5 means it can do anything a human can. They're level 4 with very severe location and weather limits.
      • chx 3y ago
        Yes. Creating a self driving car which can navigate a dark, rainy parking lot is something we do not know how. Not even in theory. You can't just throw more compute at it. You can't go from a Vickers Type 464 bomb -- one of the most complex bombs in WW II -- to the "Little Boy" by just putting more explosives in there.
        • Dylan16807 3y ago
          I don't know if I agree with that particular example. You only need to go 3-5mph in a dark, rainy parking lot.
        • Retric 3y ago
          You have the definition slightly wrong. Level 5 driving just means it can drive a child or blind person around who can’t take over in an emergency. That’s the difference between Little Boy and a Moab. However current level 5 cars aren’t something a consumer would buy. A car that refuses to drive in 99% of situations isn’t marketable. The minimum threshold for that might be a car that can only drive in Hawaii, not a large enough market to pay for R&D, but still plenty use for a blind person living in the area.
          • Dylan16807 3y ago
            > Level 5 driving just means it can drive a child or blind person around who can’t take over in an emergency. No, that's what level 4 means. Level 3 can rely on having a driver to switch to, level 4 can't. The difference between 4 and 5 is that 4 can park and give up under arbitrary circumstances, while 5 has to be able to keep going almost always.
            • Retric 3y ago
              Level 4 is steering wheel mandatory. Level 5 is steering wheel optional. Geofencing is part of the criteria, but a car that can only drive in the USA but can’t drive in Europe still qualifies as level 5. Similarly a car that refuses to drive in a blizzard but can do everything else is level 5. Being able to drive at night or moderate rain is mandatory however. That said, there is plenty of slightly different definitions thrown about. I am sure someone is going to argue a car needs to be able to drive in any country to qualify etc etc. Edit: To be clear existing self driving taxi services aren’t level 5 services with existing restrictions, but the car is physically capable of much more than it’s being used for. It can operate at night and in the rain etc they are however being extremely cautious.
              • Dylan16807 3y ago
                Steering wheel doesn't matter, despite the cute mnemonic. Level 4 cars need a steering wheel to be generally useful. But a limited vehicle like a taxi doesn't need a wheel, no matter whether it's 4 or 5. I agree with the rest of what you said. Geofencing entire continents isn't about driving ability, and blizzards are an acceptable human-level restriction.
        • krisoft 3y ago
          > Creating a self driving car which can navigate a dark, rainy parking lot is something we do not know how. Not even in theory. I do not recognise the reality you are in. Navigating dark and rainy parking lots is not hard. At all. Not hard in theory, and not hard in practice either. We have lidars which work very well in rain. We have cameras with excellent dynamic range. Parking lots are slow environments where everyone moves slowly and you are generally allowed to stop if you are suddenly spooked or need a bit more time to check things. There are hard problems about self driving cars, but dark and rainy parking lots are not the stumbling block. Where do you even get this idea? Let me tell you two harder things about self driving cars: "How many nines do you want in your certainty that the car won't hit anyone?" and "How do you want that proven? With stats or with fault tree analysis, or a mix of both?"
      • kortilla 3y ago
        Humans can’t do everything humans can. What a dumb nebulous definition.