5 ms·

Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law bin

Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.

gedy 3y ago
That sounds a lot like (American) progressive proposals too?
- clipsy 3y ago
  Which ones?
  - noduerme 3y ago
    the ones who out-group the working class as a set of un-evolved barbarians who couldn't possibly make reasonable economic or moral choices for themselves
    - phmqk76 3y ago
      How does that work? Last time I checked, we fetishized working class Trump voters who happily march cast their lot with a fascist, explaining away their hateful and anti-democratic actions as simple rebellion against NAFTA or fentanyl. I don’t infantilize anyone, and expect all of us to own our political actions.
      - noduerme 3y ago
        The pre-progessive left had a better policy. They neither infantilized nor fetishized those people. They tried to form a bloc to protect their jobs and send their kids to college. Is the lower middle class a dangerous potential axis of fascism in a de-industrializing society? Fuck yeah it is. They're the most prone to anti-democratic rhetoric. What's your solution then? Act like they don't exist?
    - olsonjeffery 3y ago
      This is a wonderful straw man you’ve constructed! Do you think if you believe in it enough, it will actually become true?
      - noduerme 3y ago
        If you sat in an L.A. bar the night Trump got elected, you'd know exactly what progressives think of the working class.
        Timon3 3y ago
        I'll let you in on a secret: most progressives are working class. You're trying to co-opt the word for a specific group of people. Don't do that.
        noduerme 3y ago
        Fine. What most rich progressives, who constitute 90% of the people I interact with, think of most poor working-class people in Iowa, who constitute 0% of the people I interact with. Does that help? I'm trying to explain the nature of the problem. And no, most progressives are not working class, and basically none of them are lower class. That's pure vanity; the belief that you, a wealthy person, stand as a tribune for a group of people you yourself are not a part of. A group you're imagining in your mind. Waiters and bartenders, for instance, are not progressives. They're either anarcho-syndicalists or they want to own the bar. No one, but I mean no one, wants to live in the world imagined by upper-middle-class whites wherein "equity" means we should all give up stuff for people with [spew of bullshit about "disproportionately climate challenged communities of historically marginalized buzzword buzzword bullshit"]. That's just you. The rest of us, like immigrants? We think you're fucking ridiculous.
        Timon3 3y ago
        > And no, most progressives are not working class, and basically none of them are lower class. That's pure vanity; the belief that you, a wealthy person, stand as a tribune for a group of people you yourself are not a part of. A group you're imagining in your mind. Sorry, but that's simply 100% wrong. I know enough progressives from the strata you're talking about to disprove that anecdotally - you'd have to show me data to convince me otherwise. > Waiters and bartenders, for instance, are not progressives. They're either anarcho-syndicalists or they want to own the bar. This shows how much you're simplifying the world. No, not literally all waiters and bartenders fall into one of those camps. > No one, but I mean no one, wants to live in the world imagined by upper-middle-class whites wherein "equity" means we should all give up stuff for people with [spew of bullshit about "disproportionately climate challenged communities of historically marginalized buzzword buzzword bullshit"]. That's just you. The rest of us, like immigrants? We think you're fucking ridiculous. Given what you write here I don't think it makes sense to continue this conversation. Have a nice day.
  - polski-g 3y ago
    Arrest shopkeepers for assault for defending their business from being robbed, but also let the robbers roam free.

Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.

gedy 3y ago

That sounds a lot like (American) progressive proposals too?

clipsy 3y ago
Which ones?
- noduerme 3y ago
  the ones who out-group the working class as a set of un-evolved barbarians who couldn't possibly make reasonable economic or moral choices for themselves
  - phmqk76 3y ago
    How does that work? Last time I checked, we fetishized working class Trump voters who happily march cast their lot with a fascist, explaining away their hateful and anti-democratic actions as simple rebellion against NAFTA or fentanyl. I don’t infantilize anyone, and expect all of us to own our political actions.
    - noduerme 3y ago
      The pre-progessive left had a better policy. They neither infantilized nor fetishized those people. They tried to form a bloc to protect their jobs and send their kids to college. Is the lower middle class a dangerous potential axis of fascism in a de-industrializing society? Fuck yeah it is. They're the most prone to anti-democratic rhetoric. What's your solution then? Act like they don't exist?
  - olsonjeffery 3y ago
    This is a wonderful straw man you’ve constructed! Do you think if you believe in it enough, it will actually become true?
    - noduerme 3y ago
      If you sat in an L.A. bar the night Trump got elected, you'd know exactly what progressives think of the working class.
      - Timon3 3y ago
        I'll let you in on a secret: most progressives are working class. You're trying to co-opt the word for a specific group of people. Don't do that.
        noduerme 3y ago
        Fine. What most rich progressives, who constitute 90% of the people I interact with, think of most poor working-class people in Iowa, who constitute 0% of the people I interact with. Does that help? I'm trying to explain the nature of the problem. And no, most progressives are not working class, and basically none of them are lower class. That's pure vanity; the belief that you, a wealthy person, stand as a tribune for a group of people you yourself are not a part of. A group you're imagining in your mind. Waiters and bartenders, for instance, are not progressives. They're either anarcho-syndicalists or they want to own the bar. No one, but I mean no one, wants to live in the world imagined by upper-middle-class whites wherein "equity" means we should all give up stuff for people with [spew of bullshit about "disproportionately climate challenged communities of historically marginalized buzzword buzzword bullshit"]. That's just you. The rest of us, like immigrants? We think you're fucking ridiculous.
        Timon3 3y ago
        > And no, most progressives are not working class, and basically none of them are lower class. That's pure vanity; the belief that you, a wealthy person, stand as a tribune for a group of people you yourself are not a part of. A group you're imagining in your mind. Sorry, but that's simply 100% wrong. I know enough progressives from the strata you're talking about to disprove that anecdotally - you'd have to show me data to convince me otherwise. > Waiters and bartenders, for instance, are not progressives. They're either anarcho-syndicalists or they want to own the bar. This shows how much you're simplifying the world. No, not literally all waiters and bartenders fall into one of those camps. > No one, but I mean no one, wants to live in the world imagined by upper-middle-class whites wherein "equity" means we should all give up stuff for people with [spew of bullshit about "disproportionately climate challenged communities of historically marginalized buzzword buzzword bullshit"]. That's just you. The rest of us, like immigrants? We think you're fucking ridiculous. Given what you write here I don't think it makes sense to continue this conversation. Have a nice day.
- polski-g 3y ago
  Arrest shopkeepers for assault for defending their business from being robbed, but also let the robbers roam free.