8 ms·

Aside from Ocean Acidification, uncontrollable Algae Blooms, and Melting Sea Ice, we now have Ocean Deoxygenation on our plates. We also have unprecedented drou

by Apofis 3y ago

Aside from Ocean Acidification, uncontrollable Algae Blooms, and Melting Sea Ice, we now have Ocean Deoxygenation on our plates. We also have unprecedented droughts on land as well. Humans really will be the next mass extinction event on this planet. So incredibly selfish.

throwanem 3y ago
"Will be?" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
jauntywundrkind 3y ago
Acidification is the unavailability to carry hydrogen molecules. The primary hydrogen carrier in water is oxygen. Are deoxygenation & acidification different problem, or different slants on the same problem?
- rolph 3y ago
  deoxygenation, and acidification are two different phenomenon, they may influence each other but are not obligated. im very much inclined to say these are not problems. these are symptoms of a larger scale problem, namely an atmosphere pushing thermal bounds beyond global buffering capacity, and CO2 accumulating beyond biospheric buffering ,and regulation.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_overshoot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_overshoot
titzer 3y ago
You forgot microplastics.
johndevor 3y ago
Just unlock gen 4 nuclear.
TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
I don't think there has ever been a time in all of human history with so many existential threats. Between catastrophic climate change and resource depletion, AI, the danger of nuclear war, COVID and other potential pandemics, economic insecurity for most of the population, and farmed irrational extremist political movements, we seem to have quite a lot to deal with. Might as well just have Carrington Event 2.0 and be done with it.
- pirate787 3y ago
  Actually, the world has never had greater economic security than it does in 2023.
  - minsight 3y ago
    Hope you can eat that.
    - thfuran 3y ago
      Well, you sure as hell can't eat economic insecurity.
    - harry8 3y ago
      Ok this conversation can get pretty silly, let's try to avoid that. Now at 2023 we have lifted more people out of poverty and ill-health in both raw numbers and as a percentage of the population than any time in the planet's history. Without prescribing anything in so far as dealing with the world's problems, be careful flippantly trading that off. It may not be you, your friends and your family that previously watched their children die and now don't but I don't see that as making this quite frankly stunning achievement as an irrelevance. https://www.gapminder.org/fw/world-health-chart/ https://www.gapminder.org/fw/world-health-chart/
      - actionfromafar 3y ago
        When the oil is running out, how will you make the fertiliser?
brutusborn 3y ago
I don’t think any of these are really that critical: they will become a problem in a few centuries if we do absolutely nothing but will likely be fine. Take ocean deoxygenation: it happens locally due to fertiliser runoff in places that have a history of low oxygen. It’s good to put some resources towards fixing this, but it’s not useful to think of it as an extinction level problem that we “now have.”
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  Wow, you have the entirety of the world ecosystem, from deep ocean currents and biology, to the entire 70% of the world's surface oceans, to the jungle rainforests, arctic/antarctic ice, atmospheric changes, solar radiation variation, historical records, 100% accurate computer simulations/predictors, all nailed down? All the interaction of species, effects of (mass) extinctions? Invasive species? Habitat destruction, soil loss from farming, AND you can predict the impacts of human industry, economics, and technology change? You have ALL THAT NAILED DOWN, internet expert? Forgive me if I don't take your assurances about that as being "no big deal" with any iota of reliability. There are literally 20 major scientific domains that all are in lockstep agreement about anthropogenic global warming, from geologists, atmospheric scientists, basic chemistry and physics, oceanographers, biologists, archaeologists, historians. A massive collection of scientific inquiry that basically all ends at the same conclusions. It's quite literally thousands of PhDs, maybe tens of thousands. Of course, all of them don't know as much as you, internet guy.
  - brutusborn 3y ago
    Yeah I’ve read a lot actually, which is why I’ve changed my mind about the severity of these problems. Most predictions are just conjecture with no real link to good models. I’m always happy to read more papers if you know of any good ones. All the ones I’ve read on low ocean oxygen have convinced me it isn’t a very critical problem. Just a few things you get wrong: thinking models are 100% accurate, thinking scientists have everything “nailed down” and assuming that I don’t know enough to back up my opinion.
    - 3y ago
beachy 3y ago
Atmospheric CO2 has increased by a third just since I've been alive. It's difficult to overstate just how quickly we are destroying the planet. I spend a lot of time snorkeling and I tell my kids to really take in what they see because it probably won't be there when they're parents themselves.
- brutusborn 3y ago
  I think it’s good to encourage appreciation, but no need to exaggerate risks. IPCC predicts existential risks to marine ecosystems at temperatures much higher than today. Your child will probably be able to go snorkelling just fine as an adult. My local coral reefs have returned to health after a major bleeching event that was predicted to be the beginning of the end. Sometimes our catastrophic predictions are wrong, or exaggerated. https://www.aims.gov.au/reef-monitoring/gbr-condition-summary-2020-2021 https://www.aims.gov.au/reef-monitoring/gbr-condition-summar...
  - yongjik 3y ago
    Collapsing marine ecosystems are not theoretical risks, they have been happening around the world for decades (if not more). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfishing#Examples_and_evidence_for_overfishing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfishing#Examples_and_evide... Or did you mean "Don't worry, the impact of oxygen level change is exaggerated, because we'll make sure those fish are gone one way or other!"?
    - brutusborn 3y ago
      Yes, some fisheries are collapsing in places where they are not properly regulated. Meanwhile whale numbers are increasing, polar bear numbers are increasing and in my local fishery the fish population is increasing! Don’t take my comment as saying there are no problems, I’m merely pointing out that telling children “this probably won’t exist when you are an adult” isn’t particularly honest and I don’t think it’s very useful.
      - 3y ago

by Apofis 3y ago

throwanem 3y ago

"Will be?" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

jauntywundrkind 3y ago

Acidification is the unavailability to carry hydrogen molecules. The primary hydrogen carrier in water is oxygen. Are deoxygenation & acidification different problem, or different slants on the same problem?

rolph 3y ago
deoxygenation, and acidification are two different phenomenon, they may influence each other but are not obligated. im very much inclined to say these are not problems. these are symptoms of a larger scale problem, namely an atmosphere pushing thermal bounds beyond global buffering capacity, and CO2 accumulating beyond biospheric buffering ,and regulation.
- myshpa 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_overshoot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_overshoot

titzer 3y ago

You forgot microplastics.

johndevor 3y ago

Just unlock gen 4 nuclear.

TheOtherHobbes 3y ago

I don't think there has ever been a time in all of human history with so many existential threats. Between catastrophic climate change and resource depletion, AI, the danger of nuclear war, COVID and other potential pandemics, economic insecurity for most of the population, and farmed irrational extremist political movements, we seem to have quite a lot to deal with. Might as well just have Carrington Event 2.0 and be done with it.

pirate787 3y ago
Actually, the world has never had greater economic security than it does in 2023.
- minsight 3y ago
  Hope you can eat that.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    Well, you sure as hell can't eat economic insecurity.
  - harry8 3y ago
    Ok this conversation can get pretty silly, let's try to avoid that. Now at 2023 we have lifted more people out of poverty and ill-health in both raw numbers and as a percentage of the population than any time in the planet's history. Without prescribing anything in so far as dealing with the world's problems, be careful flippantly trading that off. It may not be you, your friends and your family that previously watched their children die and now don't but I don't see that as making this quite frankly stunning achievement as an irrelevance. https://www.gapminder.org/fw/world-health-chart/ https://www.gapminder.org/fw/world-health-chart/
    - actionfromafar 3y ago
      When the oil is running out, how will you make the fertiliser?

brutusborn 3y ago

I don’t think any of these are really that critical: they will become a problem in a few centuries if we do absolutely nothing but will likely be fine. Take ocean deoxygenation: it happens locally due to fertiliser runoff in places that have a history of low oxygen. It’s good to put some resources towards fixing this, but it’s not useful to think of it as an extinction level problem that we “now have.”

AtlasBarfed 3y ago
Wow, you have the entirety of the world ecosystem, from deep ocean currents and biology, to the entire 70% of the world's surface oceans, to the jungle rainforests, arctic/antarctic ice, atmospheric changes, solar radiation variation, historical records, 100% accurate computer simulations/predictors, all nailed down? All the interaction of species, effects of (mass) extinctions? Invasive species? Habitat destruction, soil loss from farming, AND you can predict the impacts of human industry, economics, and technology change? You have ALL THAT NAILED DOWN, internet expert? Forgive me if I don't take your assurances about that as being "no big deal" with any iota of reliability. There are literally 20 major scientific domains that all are in lockstep agreement about anthropogenic global warming, from geologists, atmospheric scientists, basic chemistry and physics, oceanographers, biologists, archaeologists, historians. A massive collection of scientific inquiry that basically all ends at the same conclusions. It's quite literally thousands of PhDs, maybe tens of thousands. Of course, all of them don't know as much as you, internet guy.
- brutusborn 3y ago
  Yeah I’ve read a lot actually, which is why I’ve changed my mind about the severity of these problems. Most predictions are just conjecture with no real link to good models. I’m always happy to read more papers if you know of any good ones. All the ones I’ve read on low ocean oxygen have convinced me it isn’t a very critical problem. Just a few things you get wrong: thinking models are 100% accurate, thinking scientists have everything “nailed down” and assuming that I don’t know enough to back up my opinion.
  - 3y ago

beachy 3y ago

Atmospheric CO2 has increased by a third just since I've been alive. It's difficult to overstate just how quickly we are destroying the planet. I spend a lot of time snorkeling and I tell my kids to really take in what they see because it probably won't be there when they're parents themselves.

brutusborn 3y ago
I think it’s good to encourage appreciation, but no need to exaggerate risks. IPCC predicts existential risks to marine ecosystems at temperatures much higher than today. Your child will probably be able to go snorkelling just fine as an adult. My local coral reefs have returned to health after a major bleeching event that was predicted to be the beginning of the end. Sometimes our catastrophic predictions are wrong, or exaggerated. https://www.aims.gov.au/reef-monitoring/gbr-condition-summary-2020-2021 https://www.aims.gov.au/reef-monitoring/gbr-condition-summar...
- yongjik 3y ago
  Collapsing marine ecosystems are not theoretical risks, they have been happening around the world for decades (if not more). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfishing#Examples_and_evidence_for_overfishing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfishing#Examples_and_evide... Or did you mean "Don't worry, the impact of oxygen level change is exaggerated, because we'll make sure those fish are gone one way or other!"?
  - brutusborn 3y ago
    Yes, some fisheries are collapsing in places where they are not properly regulated. Meanwhile whale numbers are increasing, polar bear numbers are increasing and in my local fishery the fish population is increasing! Don’t take my comment as saying there are no problems, I’m merely pointing out that telling children “this probably won’t exist when you are an adult” isn’t particularly honest and I don’t think it’s very useful.
    - 3y ago