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Tesla display that but also displays highly accurate estimates of any trip you plan. To me the real party at fault with EV range in the USA is the EPA, which c

Tesla display that but also displays highly accurate estimates of any trip you plan. To me the real party at fault with EV range in the USA is the EPA, which combines city and highway range in a single number, which inflates the highway number. Every EV that is sold advertises this inflated EPA number. Nobody cares about city range, just publish highway range, or both, like we do with gas cars.

MBCook 3y ago
There are two tests you can run for the EPA. What I’ve heard is one favors EVs more and only Tesla uses those numbers for their EVs. I agree the test needs a redesign. No one drives 55, and speed has a big impact on EVs due to wind resistance.
- CameronNemo 3y ago
  Pretty sad that we can't just drive 55 on highways. Not even trucks that are towing will drive 55 always.
  - yurishimo 3y ago
    Why do people need to drive slow? Sometimes you gotta get somewhere. If they are willing to pay the premium to driver faster and follow the law while doing so, what’s the harm?
    - CameronNemo 3y ago
      They are not willing to pay the premium, though. Tell me when highways, bridges, and streets are not paid by gas taxes -- you won't. Tell me when I can trade money for reliably sequestered CO2 -- you can't. edit: I didn't downvote them btw
      - yurishimo 3y ago
        So you downvote me because you are refusing to engage in the “we live in a society” meme? We’ve decided collectively how to fund infrastructure and engage in climate action as a society. If you don’t like it, feel free to lobby your neighbors and representatives to change the law.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - sdfignaionio 3y ago
      I think you know why: efficiency and safety. Driving fast greatly increases fuel consumption and wear on tires. It makes crashes more likely and more serious. Why do people need to drive fast? The gains are minimal even if you stay exclusively on a lightly-trafficked freeway. In more realistic scenarios, the gains are almost nothing. You'll just be the first one to the light or traffic jam.
    - patmorgan23 3y ago
      Air resistant. For most vehicles the sweet spot for efficiency is around 45-50 miles an hour. If you go faster than that you start spending more energy fighting wind resistance than going faster
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    You can. Just do it in the right lane, please.
    - gnicholas 3y ago
      Seems OK at first glance, but if you're in a 65 then the trucks (in the right lane) will want to go 65+. Going 55 in the right lane means they all need to pass you, which causes a domino effect onto the other lanes of traffic. If you're on a 4-lane highway (2 in each direction), going 55 means that trucks that pass you will have to go in the fast lane. If there aren't a lot of trucks around, then going 55 in the right lane has less of an impact on other drivers. But if there are many trucks (which there usually are, IME), then going 10 MPH under the limit will cause a lot of headaches for all the other drivers around you.
      - MBCook 3y ago
        And that’s 65. I’ve been in places where the speed limit is 70 but people usually go 75-80. That’s 20-25mph faster than you. At that point you’re practically impeding traffic, and having a big truck pass you is terrifying. Just because you can legally drive 55 or maybe even less doesn’t make it safe.
        jcranmer 3y ago
        > Just because you can legally drive 55 or maybe even less doesn’t make it safe. Generally, you actually can't legally drive that much slower than prevailing speed.
        gnicholas 3y ago
        I remember seeing minimum speed limit signs in Iowa. I was told this was to keep tractors off the highways. Where these signs aren’t present, I think you’d have to be going more than 10 under the maximum limit to get a ticket.
sdfignaionio 3y ago
There are two important things you're missing: 1. Tesla's estimates are not "highly accurate". They are alleged to use a deliberately optimistic estimate when the battery is near full, then gradually switch to a more realistic estimate as the battery drains. In particular they are alleged to incorrectly account for the weather. This means the car will always display nearly the advertised number at full charge (and on a test drive). Supposedly Tesla used to use a more accurate estimate but then got orders from on high to fudge the numbers. 2. For other car manufacturers, the range estimates are not terribly inflated. The report from Edmunds claim that most EV models meet or exceed their range estimates, and cars that miss their estimates don't miss by anywhere near as much as Teslas.
- lsaferite 3y ago
  I know we are talking about EVs here, but my ICE has an estimated range display and _it_ isn't super accurate _and_ it doesn't take potential weather (or other factors like elevation) into account either. Why would you expect it to factor in _potential_ weather when giving a range estimate?
  - maxerickson 3y ago
    It's not the potential weather, the one mode for the range estimator apparently isn't taking the current ambient conditions into account. So it's not factoring in the likely load from the heat or AC when it's cold or hot and they need to run to keep the vehicle comfortable.
  - sdfignaionio 3y ago
    Allegedly, 1. Other companies have more accurate estimates than Tesla. 2. Tesla uses a different and more accurate algorithm when charge is low. 3. Tesla's estimates used to be more accurate. It doesn't make sense to argue the problem is intractable when it has supposedly been solved by many companies, including Tesla itself. >Why would you expect it to factor in _potential_ weather when giving a range estimate? I wouldn't expect that. The cars have thermometers.
- brandonagr2 3y ago
TheRealSteel 3y ago
How can you say nobody cares about city range? That's all I care about.
- nsenifty 3y ago
  Because people don't tend to drive non-stop for hundreds of miles at cities (except perhaps taxis)? You also always have a charger nearby.
  - xboxnolifes 3y ago
    But the range is calculated based on the energy efficiency, and all drivers (should) care about that number, since that's the cost.
    - patmorgan23 3y ago
      Range != Efficiency. Electric motors are all pretty efficient. It has more to do with how big a battery they were able to squeeze into the thing. This is different from ICE vehicles where fuel efficiency is more variable and does affect range more.
- sdfignaionio 3y ago
  People don't generally drive 200 miles in the city in one stretch.

MBCook 3y ago

There are two tests you can run for the EPA. What I’ve heard is one favors EVs more and only Tesla uses those numbers for their EVs. I agree the test needs a redesign. No one drives 55, and speed has a big impact on EVs due to wind resistance.

CameronNemo 3y ago
Pretty sad that we can't just drive 55 on highways. Not even trucks that are towing will drive 55 always.
- yurishimo 3y ago
  Why do people need to drive slow? Sometimes you gotta get somewhere. If they are willing to pay the premium to driver faster and follow the law while doing so, what’s the harm?
  - CameronNemo 3y ago
    They are not willing to pay the premium, though. Tell me when highways, bridges, and streets are not paid by gas taxes -- you won't. Tell me when I can trade money for reliably sequestered CO2 -- you can't. edit: I didn't downvote them btw
    - yurishimo 3y ago
      So you downvote me because you are refusing to engage in the “we live in a society” meme? We’ve decided collectively how to fund infrastructure and engage in climate action as a society. If you don’t like it, feel free to lobby your neighbors and representatives to change the law.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  - sdfignaionio 3y ago
    I think you know why: efficiency and safety. Driving fast greatly increases fuel consumption and wear on tires. It makes crashes more likely and more serious. Why do people need to drive fast? The gains are minimal even if you stay exclusively on a lightly-trafficked freeway. In more realistic scenarios, the gains are almost nothing. You'll just be the first one to the light or traffic jam.
  - patmorgan23 3y ago
    Air resistant. For most vehicles the sweet spot for efficiency is around 45-50 miles an hour. If you go faster than that you start spending more energy fighting wind resistance than going faster
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- CamperBob2 3y ago
  You can. Just do it in the right lane, please.
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    Seems OK at first glance, but if you're in a 65 then the trucks (in the right lane) will want to go 65+. Going 55 in the right lane means they all need to pass you, which causes a domino effect onto the other lanes of traffic. If you're on a 4-lane highway (2 in each direction), going 55 means that trucks that pass you will have to go in the fast lane. If there aren't a lot of trucks around, then going 55 in the right lane has less of an impact on other drivers. But if there are many trucks (which there usually are, IME), then going 10 MPH under the limit will cause a lot of headaches for all the other drivers around you.
    - MBCook 3y ago
      And that’s 65. I’ve been in places where the speed limit is 70 but people usually go 75-80. That’s 20-25mph faster than you. At that point you’re practically impeding traffic, and having a big truck pass you is terrifying. Just because you can legally drive 55 or maybe even less doesn’t make it safe.
      - jcranmer 3y ago
        > Just because you can legally drive 55 or maybe even less doesn’t make it safe. Generally, you actually can't legally drive that much slower than prevailing speed.
        gnicholas 3y ago
        I remember seeing minimum speed limit signs in Iowa. I was told this was to keep tractors off the highways. Where these signs aren’t present, I think you’d have to be going more than 10 under the maximum limit to get a ticket.

sdfignaionio 3y ago

There are two important things you're missing: 1. Tesla's estimates are not "highly accurate". They are alleged to use a deliberately optimistic estimate when the battery is near full, then gradually switch to a more realistic estimate as the battery drains. In particular they are alleged to incorrectly account for the weather. This means the car will always display nearly the advertised number at full charge (and on a test drive). Supposedly Tesla used to use a more accurate estimate but then got orders from on high to fudge the numbers. 2. For other car manufacturers, the range estimates are not terribly inflated. The report from Edmunds claim that most EV models meet or exceed their range estimates, and cars that miss their estimates don't miss by anywhere near as much as Teslas.

lsaferite 3y ago
I know we are talking about EVs here, but my ICE has an estimated range display and _it_ isn't super accurate _and_ it doesn't take potential weather (or other factors like elevation) into account either. Why would you expect it to factor in _potential_ weather when giving a range estimate?
- maxerickson 3y ago
  It's not the potential weather, the one mode for the range estimator apparently isn't taking the current ambient conditions into account. So it's not factoring in the likely load from the heat or AC when it's cold or hot and they need to run to keep the vehicle comfortable.
- sdfignaionio 3y ago
  Allegedly, 1. Other companies have more accurate estimates than Tesla. 2. Tesla uses a different and more accurate algorithm when charge is low. 3. Tesla's estimates used to be more accurate. It doesn't make sense to argue the problem is intractable when it has supposedly been solved by many companies, including Tesla itself. >Why would you expect it to factor in _potential_ weather when giving a range estimate? I wouldn't expect that. The cars have thermometers.
brandonagr2 3y ago

TheRealSteel 3y ago

How can you say nobody cares about city range? That's all I care about.

nsenifty 3y ago
Because people don't tend to drive non-stop for hundreds of miles at cities (except perhaps taxis)? You also always have a charger nearby.
- xboxnolifes 3y ago
  But the range is calculated based on the energy efficiency, and all drivers (should) care about that number, since that's the cost.
  - patmorgan23 3y ago
    Range != Efficiency. Electric motors are all pretty efficient. It has more to do with how big a battery they were able to squeeze into the thing. This is different from ICE vehicles where fuel efficiency is more variable and does affect range more.
sdfignaionio 3y ago
People don't generally drive 200 miles in the city in one stretch.