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> you could anonymize your location on Tesla's servers I already anonymise my location on Tesla's servers by simply not owning a Tesla
by ddalex 3y ago
> you could anonymize your location on Tesla's servers
I already anonymise my location on Tesla's servers by simply not owning a Tesla
- moffkalast 3y agoAh, but where's the challenge in that?
- coolspot 3y agoYour car is filmed and recognized by other teslas.
- closewith 3y agoThat can't be legal? Not in the EU, anyway.
- ballenf 3y agoAre you saying dash cams are illegal broadly there?
- closewith 3y agoDash cams are much more tightly regulated in the EU than elsewhere (you become a Data Processor and have all the responsibilities that comes with that). Private ANPR in public spaces is unlawful in I think every EU state?
- liber8 3y agoComing from an American perspective (where, when you are in public, you have basically no expectation of privacy), this seems insane. Does this mean that if I'm filming a vlog at Brandenburg Gate (which inevitably includes video of other people in the background enjoying the area), I'm in violation of privacy laws? Does that mean if I take a video selfie of me and my family members (which, again, includes images of others in the background, and which is automatically uploaded to icloud) I'm a data processor and am in violation of privacy laws? I assume there is some line here, but I can't think of the logic separating a person's dashcam from my examples?
- littlestymaar 3y ago> Does this mean that if I'm filing a vlog at Brandenburg Gate (which inevitably includes video of other people in the background enjoying the area), I'm in violation of privacy laws? No (at least not in France, which also has pretty stringent privacy policy so I think it's still a relevant answer) you can film people or cars in public streets but you cannot do any kind of data processing on the things you film (you can't keep a database with the license plates you have on your personal videos for instance). In short the line is: pictures and films by themselves are OK [1], but doing anything with the personal info you get from those video is forbidden. [1]: (under conditions, you must not cause harm in the process: for instance no “happy slapping” videos)
- monksy 3y agoThere are differences between private photographs and commerical products. Vlog/youtube would be considered to be potentially commerical .. so you would probably be responsible fore GDPR and likeness recording. (The onious is on you to blur) Video selfie/photograph personal/non shared use - you're free do this https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/photography-laws-germany https://allaboutberlin.com/guides/photography-laws-germany I am not a lawyer, nor is this legal advice.
- klausa 3y agoBroadly speaking the line is: someone in the background, appearing briefly: fine. Taking photos of specific people in public without their consent: not fine.
- codedokode 3y ago> Does this mean that if I'm filming a vlog at Brandenburg Gate (which inevitably includes video of other people in the background enjoying the area), I don't know about the law in Germany but I think it is very impolite in any country. You should ask people's permission before putting them online. On Japanese TV they blur out faces of people passing by for example when filming an interview in the street.
- closewith 3y agoAs other have pointed out, the rules on photography vary from country to country within the bloc. However, the rules governing data protection and the processing of personal data (including photos) come from the GDPR, and very basically say that any processing of personal data requires a valid legal basis. There is an exception for personal use - the household exemption - but as soon as you cross the line into commercial operations or certain activities such as publishing, creating databases, etc, you lose the benefit of that exception. That doesn't mean you can't continue, just that you now need a legal basis and need to follow the rules (inform data subjects, allow the right to be forgotten, etc). So in general, dashcams are fine (unless a local law prohibits them) as you have a legitimate interest in recording your driving in case of an accident. Creating a facial recognition or ANPR database with the same footage would be unlawful, however.
- Ylpertnodi 3y agoFucking hell, here we go again: "Dash cams are much more tightly regulated in some parts of the EU than elsewhere." It depends on the eu country of which there are several...including an ex-eu country. How it comes accross: One of the things i hate about America is that in new york all the californian building restrictions and zoning are killing free speech.
- closewith 3y agoWith respect, the GDPR is a Regulation and this applies uniformly across the bloc. Enforcement varies, obviously. TBH your comment comes off as very condescending and ill-informed.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Knee_Pain 3y agoGDPR is to be implemented independently in each country. There is room for interpretation, it's not a granitic ruleset from above
- closewith 3y agoNo, that's not correct. When talking about the EU, there are two types of laws (well, three if you include treaties), Directives and Regulations. Directives are common goals which much be transposed into law by each country and there is indeed differences in implementation. An example of a directive is Directive 2012/27/EU on energy efficiency. It set goals on energy efficiency (and minimum targets), but each country implemented it's own legislation to transpose the Directive into law, and those implementations varied wildly. However, EU Regulations are a different kettle of fish. Regulations are EU legal acts which are immediately enforceable as national law in all EU states. GDPR is a Regulation and so applies uniformly across the bloc. Regulations are designed to harmonise legislation across the entire bloc. Obviously there are differences in enforcement, but the ultimate arbiter is the CJEU and decisions are binding in all EU states.
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- anamexis 3y agoIn Germany, dash cams specifically are a bit of a gray area, but for example CCTV of any public areas is generally illegal. https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/tesla-warns-its-cameras-risks-infringing-german-data-privacy-laws https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/tesla-warns-its-camer...
- someplaceguy 3y agoI think EU countries are supposed to be using the same legal privacy framework, although the exact way the laws are phrased and interpreted might differ from country to country. I believe in Spain, generally speaking, it is legal to record your interactions with someone when you are in public. But I think many people are not aware that this is legal, including some police officers, because privacy laws are perceived to be quite strict. Similarly, I think dashcams are actually legal, even though most police probably think they are not. I think these recordings can even be used in court cases, and in fact in many cases it's probably the reason why they are legal, otherwise it would be hard to see a legitimate purpose that would override the privacy drawbacks. However, there are restrictions. Indiscriminate recording (i.e. CCTV) of public areas is illegal, as in Germany. This is also true for the entrances of personal homes: you are only allowed to have CCTV outside if it's pointing directly at your door, not the street in general (and you must post a sign). An obvious restriction is that I think you are not allowed to publish a recording without either anonymizing the people in them or getting their permission. An interesting restriction that comes to mind is that a few years ago, there was a court case of a man who was caught filming children on a school playground while positioned outside the school, which at the time it was presumed to be for sexual purposes, I think because of the way he was doing the recording (big lenses, I think?) and because he didn't have a legitimate motive for doing that (like being the parent of one of the children, or filming a documentary, etc). He was sentenced and received a large fine, but I think the legal reasoning was that children on a school playground are expected to have a legal right to privacy, even though it's a public school. So the judge considered it the legal equivalent of filming someone in their private home from outside. I'm very happy for cases like these where common sense prevails over legal / ideological dogma (even though I'm also aware of the dangers it can pose when laws aren't interpreted to the letter).
- john61 3y agoIn Austria there are illegal.
- bigbillheck 3y agoI don't think they're all that concerned about the law.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- bonestamp2 3y agoWhich part? Lots of German cars use cameras to recognize cars for various safety and convenience features.
- brador 3y ago>Your car is filmed and recognized by other teslas. - coolspot Is this true?
- xavdid 3y ago- filmed: definitely - recorded: not sure (probably not long term) - recognized: unlikely
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y agoRecorded, definitely based on the fact that Tesla employees were sharing various "funny" clips from these cams among themselves. https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...
- nonrandomstring 3y agoTeslas, Roombas and Rings... https://cybershow.uk/episodes.php?id=12 https://cybershow.uk/episodes.php?id=12
- WeylandYutani 3y agoI thought the Chinese were being paranoid about Tesla but really anything from the US can be used to spy on your military bases.
- bonestamp2 3y agoTesla owners can use the cameras as "dashcams" and save the recordings. Here's an example from r/dashcam: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dashcam/comments/15ezdjd/tesla_dashcam_i_already_had_my_blinker_on_and_saw/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Dashcam/comments/15ezdjd/tesla_dash...
- Too 3y agoRecorded, yes. Tesla uses the fleet to collect video data for training their algorithms. This has been shared in multiple presentations from Tesla.
- thefounder 3y agoJust like on social media/chat apps
- jcuenod 3y agoThat's why I also rotate license plates and repaint my car twice a year.
- zapdrive 3y agoI also change my facial hair style 4 times a year. Will start getting plastic surgery twice a year starting next year.
- mcbuilder 3y agoI just inked an adversarial CV tattoo onto my face, worked great until that image leaked into the training data.
- zapdrive 3y agoShould have tattooed a QR code that auto downloads a malware that bricks A100s.
- wongarsu 3y agoAgainst face recognition you could use CV dazzle makeup [1] to look less like a face. However I wouldn't recommend using that approach for your vehicle 1 https://dangerousminds.net/comments/foil_facebooks_facial_recognition_using_sneaky_world_war_i_razzle https://dangerousminds.net/comments/foil_facebooks_facial_re...
- fho 3y agoI think that's actually quite common on new car models. The dazzle paint job makes it harder for the press to see the shape. E.g.: https://www.bmw.com/en/automotive-life/prototype-cars.html https://www.bmw.com/en/automotive-life/prototype-cars.html
- zapdrive 3y agoI don't want my car "harder to see" going at 100 miles down the highway.
- EMCymatics 3y agoYeah, how much do you trust Musk and company?
- gumby 3y agoThis is a plausible attack vector, parallel to the profiles Facebook, Linkedin et al maintain for people who don't have accounts.
- cozzyd 3y agofortunately I only own a bike...though maybe this makes me ineligible for some Illinois class action lawsuit...
- steelframe 3y agoThat's why I cycle everywhere. With my phone switched off and stowed in a Faraday bag.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- painted-now 3y agoThat's why I only hang out in the metaverse and don't leave my home anymore. Umm, ...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ModernMech 3y agoI drive a firetruck, so I'm invisible to Teslas.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- john61 3y agoThat is why I ride a bicycle.
- 93po 3y agoCool
- chaps 3y agoWhat kind of car do you have? Your car almost definitely shares its gps location to the manufacturer and downstream data brokers.