5 ms·

> Tell me: Is it safer for People of Color, LGBTQ individuals and such to be there? Because that used to be a huge circus. Lol, no. Musk unbanned all the Nazis

> Tell me: Is it safer for People of Color, LGBTQ individuals and such to be there? Because that used to be a huge circus. Lol, no. Musk unbanned all the Nazis and says that "cis" is a slur, to give a small taste.

DoreenMichele 3y ago
I never know what to make of all the claims that Musk is transphobic. I don't really read much about him but I was friends at one time with someone who was friends with Elon and that mutual friend was trans.
- ahahahahah 3y ago
  I mean, trump has a lot of black friends too. The "cis is now a slur" thing is true on Twitter now. Musk's one trans child hates him (though he sends like a pretty shit parent in general). He fairly regular raises anti trans views. I mean, I guess you could still assume the best and that he's just an idiot and doesn't understand what he's saying.
- Timon3 3y ago
  He banned the word "cisgender" as a slur. This makes it difficult to talk about trans topics, because how are you going to refer to non-trans people? "Normal"? It's an arbitrary decision meant to alienate these groups further.
  - DoreenMichele 3y ago
    Your phrase -- "non-trans people" -- sounds like a reasonable solution?
    - Timon3 3y ago
      It is if your goal is to create a divide between the two groups. There is a reason this kind of classification isn't used with minorities, e.g. we say "hetero" instead of "non-hono".
      - gonet 3y ago
        It's different though, in that this adjective redefines the noun it's being applied to, away from the usual understanding. Consider "homosexual woman" and "heterosexual woman". Both describe an aspect of "woman" - her sexual orientation - without changing what "woman" means. Compare "cis woman" and "trans woman" though. The former refers to a female and the latter to a male. This changes "woman" away from the sex-based definition that the vast majority of people understand, to one where a subset of men claim to be women. So by using "cis", this implies an agreement with this world view that men who call themselves women somehow actually are women. A view that most people don't actually hold. This is also why in radical feminist circles they prefer terms like "trans-identified male" instead of "trans woman", to avoid adopting the linguistic contortions of the oppressor.
        Timon3 3y ago
        You can find differences everywhere if you look hard enough. The difference you identified is not objective, it's only your opinion that it "redefines the noun". I don't think that it does, at least not more than "homo"/"hetero" does. > So by using "cis", this implies an agreement with this world view that men who call themselves women somehow actually are women. A view that most people don't actually hold. You'll have to prove that most people don't hold this view, until you do it's pure conjecture. And you will also have to explain why banning the word isn't a bad thing for trans people who do subscribe to this world view, as that is the topic we're talking about.
        gonet 3y ago
        We know that most people don't hold that view because that's what polling reveals, even in the countries where law and policy have been changed in favour of that view. To further explain my linguistic point though, it's really down to an ambiguity as to whether "trans woman" and "trans man" are meant as compound nouns (in the open form, as the closed form, e.g. "transwoman", doesn't have this ambiguity) or noun phrases. As compound nouns, these have the sense of a man or woman who wishes to be the opposite. That is, a "trans woman" is a man who desires to be a woman, and a "trans man" is a woman who wants to be a man. They may even end up believing themselves to be so, based on that desire. As noun phrases, these apply the adjective "trans" as if a subset of the group the noun is describing. So a "trans woman" is understood as a woman who is male, and a "trans man" as man who is female. But this only works if you also believe that "woman" and "man" are "gender identity" categories that one can identify into, rather than based on the material biological reality of being, respectively, female or male. Introducing "cis" removes that ambiguity, implying noun phrases rather than compound nouns, and thus implies acceptance of the "gender identity" belief. When people object to the terms "cis woman" and "cis man", they are expressing a rejection of this belief system.

DoreenMichele 3y ago

I never know what to make of all the claims that Musk is transphobic. I don't really read much about him but I was friends at one time with someone who was friends with Elon and that mutual friend was trans.

ahahahahah 3y ago
I mean, trump has a lot of black friends too. The "cis is now a slur" thing is true on Twitter now. Musk's one trans child hates him (though he sends like a pretty shit parent in general). He fairly regular raises anti trans views. I mean, I guess you could still assume the best and that he's just an idiot and doesn't understand what he's saying.
Timon3 3y ago
He banned the word "cisgender" as a slur. This makes it difficult to talk about trans topics, because how are you going to refer to non-trans people? "Normal"? It's an arbitrary decision meant to alienate these groups further.
- DoreenMichele 3y ago
  Your phrase -- "non-trans people" -- sounds like a reasonable solution?
  - Timon3 3y ago
    It is if your goal is to create a divide between the two groups. There is a reason this kind of classification isn't used with minorities, e.g. we say "hetero" instead of "non-hono".
    - gonet 3y ago
      It's different though, in that this adjective redefines the noun it's being applied to, away from the usual understanding. Consider "homosexual woman" and "heterosexual woman". Both describe an aspect of "woman" - her sexual orientation - without changing what "woman" means. Compare "cis woman" and "trans woman" though. The former refers to a female and the latter to a male. This changes "woman" away from the sex-based definition that the vast majority of people understand, to one where a subset of men claim to be women. So by using "cis", this implies an agreement with this world view that men who call themselves women somehow actually are women. A view that most people don't actually hold. This is also why in radical feminist circles they prefer terms like "trans-identified male" instead of "trans woman", to avoid adopting the linguistic contortions of the oppressor.
      - Timon3 3y ago
        You can find differences everywhere if you look hard enough. The difference you identified is not objective, it's only your opinion that it "redefines the noun". I don't think that it does, at least not more than "homo"/"hetero" does. > So by using "cis", this implies an agreement with this world view that men who call themselves women somehow actually are women. A view that most people don't actually hold. You'll have to prove that most people don't hold this view, until you do it's pure conjecture. And you will also have to explain why banning the word isn't a bad thing for trans people who do subscribe to this world view, as that is the topic we're talking about.
        gonet 3y ago
        We know that most people don't hold that view because that's what polling reveals, even in the countries where law and policy have been changed in favour of that view. To further explain my linguistic point though, it's really down to an ambiguity as to whether "trans woman" and "trans man" are meant as compound nouns (in the open form, as the closed form, e.g. "transwoman", doesn't have this ambiguity) or noun phrases. As compound nouns, these have the sense of a man or woman who wishes to be the opposite. That is, a "trans woman" is a man who desires to be a woman, and a "trans man" is a woman who wants to be a man. They may even end up believing themselves to be so, based on that desire. As noun phrases, these apply the adjective "trans" as if a subset of the group the noun is describing. So a "trans woman" is understood as a woman who is male, and a "trans man" as man who is female. But this only works if you also believe that "woman" and "man" are "gender identity" categories that one can identify into, rather than based on the material biological reality of being, respectively, female or male. Introducing "cis" removes that ambiguity, implying noun phrases rather than compound nouns, and thus implies acceptance of the "gender identity" belief. When people object to the terms "cis woman" and "cis man", they are expressing a rejection of this belief system.