6 ms·

Another way of looking at it is - one company has a deep history of shipping successful and often innovative hardware products, and the other one doesn't. It's

Another way of looking at it is - one company has a deep history of shipping successful and often innovative hardware products, and the other one doesn't. It's hard to argue that that the one that ships is taking the wrong approach.

makeitdouble 3y ago
I'm not sure if you're arguing that Meta/Occulus wasn't innovative or their hardware isn't successful. The Quest Pro would perhaps be a failure, but then will the new Mac Pro be a wild success ?
- threeseed 3y ago
  Meta acquired Occulus and so far have released only a single popular product. And no one other than yourself thinks that the Mac Pro is going to be a wild success. It's a highly niche product with the Mac Studio being the mainstream version.
  - xvector 3y ago
    Quest 2 outsold Xbox X/S. That's not bad for literally the only general consumer product they've released so far.
    - photonerd 3y ago
      It’s also a little more than half the price. It’s not bad, but it builds strongly on brand recognition as well. They were really the only major game in town. It’s a good sign for them but far from convincing
      - tomnipotent 3y ago
        > It’s also a little more than half the price The Series S is the same price, and estimates put it at around half of units sold.
  - tomnipotent 3y ago
    > is going to be a wild success The Mac Pro accounts for 11% of all Mac computers sold and 40-50% (~$20bln) of Mac revenues in 2022 (including laptops); the Mac Studio is only 1% of units shipped. What's your definition of wild success?
    - 1123581321 3y ago
      The Mac Pro is their lowest volume computer. You’re thinking of MacBook Pro, perhaps. The MacBook Pro is a laptop and the Mac Pro is a full tower desktop.
      - tomnipotent 3y ago
        Nope. The MacBook Pro outsells it four to one, but the Mac Pro _starts_ at $7k and goes up to $25-50k fully loaded. It's easy to underestimate the enterprise market. https://9to5mac.com/2023/01/09/apples-most-popular-mac/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/01/09/apples-most-popular-mac/
        1123581321 3y ago
        Oh, that report. No comment on the accuracy. I did misunderstand you to be talking about all Mac revenue and not just desktops. I work on a 2019 Mac Pro so am familiar with the price range.
    - threeseed 3y ago
      Not sure where CIRP gets its numbers. Because the Mac Pro outselling the Mac mini by 10x doesn't seem believable to me. And especially in 2022 when the Intel Mac Pro was being outperformed by the Mac Studio.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - tomnipotent 3y ago
        There's a reason the Mac Mini went longer than the Pro without an update. Compared to the Studio, the Pro has dual 10Gb Ethernet, SATA and PCIe Gen 4, and a rack-mounted chassis option. For certain classes of enterprise workloads, that makes a difference. Think VFX, post production, sound stages and recording that can't use the Studio for lack of PCIe expansion slots for industry-related hardware (HDX/DSP).
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    VR being a niche in itself, I don't see absolute sales number for headset to be a failure (if you excuse the Mac Pro for being niche, any of the Meta headsets are probably a blasing success. Makes me wonder how many trash can were sold during these years) Through that lens, I don't see Meta has having slacked and failed to capture the market when they're definitely the leader and pushed it a decent amount forward. The comparison point could be HTC, who's also continuing pushing the envellope but can't touch Meta in terms of scale and price point.
baby 3y ago
You're comparing a hardware company with a software company. Meta only got into hardware in recent years. I would also point out that Meta is massively ahead of everyone in terms of VR (including Apple).
- interpol_p 3y ago
  I certainly wouldn’t call Apple a hardware company. Their software is as much a part of the story of their products as their hardware, if not more so in many areas.
  - photonerd 3y ago
    They definitely have a strong hardware history however.
pjmlp 3y ago
One company was almost bankrupt and only by sheer luck with some injection of capital managed to avoid closing shop while bringing a former founder, and the other one didn't have to deal with such problems.

makeitdouble 3y ago

I'm not sure if you're arguing that Meta/Occulus wasn't innovative or their hardware isn't successful. The Quest Pro would perhaps be a failure, but then will the new Mac Pro be a wild success ?

threeseed 3y ago
Meta acquired Occulus and so far have released only a single popular product. And no one other than yourself thinks that the Mac Pro is going to be a wild success. It's a highly niche product with the Mac Studio being the mainstream version.
- xvector 3y ago
  Quest 2 outsold Xbox X/S. That's not bad for literally the only general consumer product they've released so far.
  - photonerd 3y ago
    It’s also a little more than half the price. It’s not bad, but it builds strongly on brand recognition as well. They were really the only major game in town. It’s a good sign for them but far from convincing
    - tomnipotent 3y ago
      > It’s also a little more than half the price The Series S is the same price, and estimates put it at around half of units sold.
- tomnipotent 3y ago
  > is going to be a wild success The Mac Pro accounts for 11% of all Mac computers sold and 40-50% (~$20bln) of Mac revenues in 2022 (including laptops); the Mac Studio is only 1% of units shipped. What's your definition of wild success?
  - 1123581321 3y ago
    The Mac Pro is their lowest volume computer. You’re thinking of MacBook Pro, perhaps. The MacBook Pro is a laptop and the Mac Pro is a full tower desktop.
    - tomnipotent 3y ago
      Nope. The MacBook Pro outsells it four to one, but the Mac Pro _starts_ at $7k and goes up to $25-50k fully loaded. It's easy to underestimate the enterprise market. https://9to5mac.com/2023/01/09/apples-most-popular-mac/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/01/09/apples-most-popular-mac/
      - 1123581321 3y ago
        Oh, that report. No comment on the accuracy. I did misunderstand you to be talking about all Mac revenue and not just desktops. I work on a 2019 Mac Pro so am familiar with the price range.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    Not sure where CIRP gets its numbers. Because the Mac Pro outselling the Mac mini by 10x doesn't seem believable to me. And especially in 2022 when the Intel Mac Pro was being outperformed by the Mac Studio.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - tomnipotent 3y ago
      There's a reason the Mac Mini went longer than the Pro without an update. Compared to the Studio, the Pro has dual 10Gb Ethernet, SATA and PCIe Gen 4, and a rack-mounted chassis option. For certain classes of enterprise workloads, that makes a difference. Think VFX, post production, sound stages and recording that can't use the Studio for lack of PCIe expansion slots for industry-related hardware (HDX/DSP).
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  VR being a niche in itself, I don't see absolute sales number for headset to be a failure (if you excuse the Mac Pro for being niche, any of the Meta headsets are probably a blasing success. Makes me wonder how many trash can were sold during these years) Through that lens, I don't see Meta has having slacked and failed to capture the market when they're definitely the leader and pushed it a decent amount forward. The comparison point could be HTC, who's also continuing pushing the envellope but can't touch Meta in terms of scale and price point.

baby 3y ago

You're comparing a hardware company with a software company. Meta only got into hardware in recent years. I would also point out that Meta is massively ahead of everyone in terms of VR (including Apple).

interpol_p 3y ago
I certainly wouldn’t call Apple a hardware company. Their software is as much a part of the story of their products as their hardware, if not more so in many areas.
- photonerd 3y ago
  They definitely have a strong hardware history however.

pjmlp 3y ago

One company was almost bankrupt and only by sheer luck with some injection of capital managed to avoid closing shop while bringing a former founder, and the other one didn't have to deal with such problems.