4 ms·

Still waiting for someone to explain why the UBI won't just increase the price of all real state / rent to be $price_before + $UBI. When seen in that light, it

Still waiting for someone to explain why the UBI won't just increase the price of all real state / rent to be $price_before + $UBI. When seen in that light, it would not be surprising that people with many assets support it.

mschuster91 3y ago
That's why it will need to be linked with rent control and public housing to keep prices down. And no, you don't need to put all housing stock under rent control for that to work... Vienna for example has around 40% either outright government owned or cooperatively owned and that's enough to keep prices down on the rest of the market [1], which in turn also means that the sales market is kept down - as you have essentially a cap on the rent because no one will pay much more for a private rental than what they would pay in a government rental, the potential income one could gain from "investing" into housing is also limited. [1] https://neuezeit.at/wie-wohnen-die-wiener/ https://neuezeit.at/wie-wohnen-die-wiener/
- Brian_K_White 3y ago
  How are land owners kept out of the voting & policy loop, to simply remove those annoying impediments? In the US I just assume nothing actually effective can ever happen (on almost any topic really) because the people who would need to do it are all the same people who wouldn't like it, or are at least enriched by them.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    > How are land owners kept out of the voting & policy loop, to simply remove those annoying impediments? Vienna has been a social democrat (SPÖ) stronghold ever since the first democratic elections in the 1910s (called "Rotes Wien" for that reason), interrupted only during the association of Austria to Nazi Germany, and the Viennese population is proud of having their Gemeindewohnungen - calls to sell them off would probably lead to political obliviation of the idiot dumb enough to call for it. Even the far-right FPÖ didn't dare to go that far, all they attempted to want was a requirement to speak German (2011, [1]) or prioritise ethnic Austrians (2018, [2]). [1] https://www.derstandard.at/story/1297818846747/fpoe-nennt-deutsch-als-bedingung-fuer-gemeindewohnungen https://www.derstandard.at/story/1297818846747/fpoe-nennt-de... [2] https://www.vienna.at/fpoe-wien-will-vorteil-fuer-oesterreicher-bei-vergabe-von-gemeindebau-wohnungen/6003105 https://www.vienna.at/fpoe-wien-will-vorteil-fuer-oesterreic...
erik_seaberg 3y ago
If you can pay rent without a job, you don’t need to live near a strong job market (which is where most of the housing shortages are).
- mejutoco 3y ago
  If the premise I put forward is true you won't be able to pay rent without a job because rent after UBI would be $previous_rent + $UBI.

mschuster91 3y ago

That's why it will need to be linked with rent control and public housing to keep prices down. And no, you don't need to put all housing stock under rent control for that to work... Vienna for example has around 40% either outright government owned or cooperatively owned and that's enough to keep prices down on the rest of the market [1], which in turn also means that the sales market is kept down - as you have essentially a cap on the rent because no one will pay much more for a private rental than what they would pay in a government rental, the potential income one could gain from "investing" into housing is also limited. [1] https://neuezeit.at/wie-wohnen-die-wiener/ https://neuezeit.at/wie-wohnen-die-wiener/

Brian_K_White 3y ago
How are land owners kept out of the voting & policy loop, to simply remove those annoying impediments? In the US I just assume nothing actually effective can ever happen (on almost any topic really) because the people who would need to do it are all the same people who wouldn't like it, or are at least enriched by them.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > How are land owners kept out of the voting & policy loop, to simply remove those annoying impediments? Vienna has been a social democrat (SPÖ) stronghold ever since the first democratic elections in the 1910s (called "Rotes Wien" for that reason), interrupted only during the association of Austria to Nazi Germany, and the Viennese population is proud of having their Gemeindewohnungen - calls to sell them off would probably lead to political obliviation of the idiot dumb enough to call for it. Even the far-right FPÖ didn't dare to go that far, all they attempted to want was a requirement to speak German (2011, [1]) or prioritise ethnic Austrians (2018, [2]). [1] https://www.derstandard.at/story/1297818846747/fpoe-nennt-deutsch-als-bedingung-fuer-gemeindewohnungen https://www.derstandard.at/story/1297818846747/fpoe-nennt-de... [2] https://www.vienna.at/fpoe-wien-will-vorteil-fuer-oesterreicher-bei-vergabe-von-gemeindebau-wohnungen/6003105 https://www.vienna.at/fpoe-wien-will-vorteil-fuer-oesterreic...

erik_seaberg 3y ago

If you can pay rent without a job, you don’t need to live near a strong job market (which is where most of the housing shortages are).

mejutoco 3y ago
If the premise I put forward is true you won't be able to pay rent without a job because rent after UBI would be $previous_rent + $UBI.