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I have seen three now from China alone. Plus a calculation from some respected institute from today that confirms the theory
by 7moritz7 3y ago
I have seen three now from China alone. Plus a calculation from some respected institute from today that confirms the theory
- fallingknife 3y agoWhy are they all from China? Why are they able to replicate so much faster than US labs?
- Ancapistani 3y agoThey have a lot of labs, and materials sourcing is easier for them. That’s partially because China is the origin of lots of stuff, and partly because the US regulated red phosphorus as a meth precursor.
- mrandish 3y agoAdditionally, it appears some of the original team members were concerned about possible industrial spying or leaks and that 'other parties' might be moving to replicate which was part of the impetus for rushing to publish. So, it's possible that some team(s) in China may have already been starting, underway or at least thinking about it.
- wredue 3y agoWhere was this? I haven’t seen this, but it definitely explains the drama surrounding this whole situation. It couldn’t have come at a worse time for drama either, as the right wing is currently on possibly their most massive anti-science tirade world wide that they’ve ever pushed.
- mrandish 3y ago> it definitely explains the drama surrounding this whole situation. It was in a Twitter thread linked on an HN thread a couple days ago wherein someone had done some digging online into resumes, publication histories, etc and recapped a bunch of the apparent history of LK99 and the related scientists and institutions. Sorry, I didn't bookmark it. But it contained quite a bit more drama including possible team conflict over potential Nobel credit and a deathbed promise to the team's mentor, one of the initial LK99 discoverers. No matter how this turns out, there's probably a helluva good book or movie in the backstory as it appears to be a team of unlikely underdogs stubbornly pursuing a long-shot while scraping together minimal funding over many years, being passed over for tenure, taking on unrelated side work and having their initial paper rejected by Nature, etc. It makes me extra hopeful that LK99 is at least an interesting novel material, even if not a superconductor.
- fouc 3y agoYou're probably referring to https://twitter.com/8teAPi/status/1684385895565365248 https://twitter.com/8teAPi/status/1684385895565365248 but the same person admitted they're writing fiction (I would call it speculative fiction drawn from known facts) https://twitter.com/8teAPi/status/1686217806298423299 https://twitter.com/8teAPi/status/1686217806298423299
- chrisco255 3y agoWell at least the regulations have worked to solve the meth crisis.
- ta1243 3y agoEveryone with half a brain in the US is working the ad-tech and data-mining industries, that's where the money is.
- bugglebeetle 3y agoTo be fair, China also has an extensive state surveillance apparatus. They just have their military and security agencies run it out in the open at much lower cost. The obfuscation in the US is much more expensive to maintain, but necessary for the illusory veneer of privacy and “freedom.”
- objektif 3y ago[flagged]
- throw10920 3y agoNo, it's not true, it's extreme hyperbole spoken with the intent to push a political agenda.
- ketzo 3y agoI suppose the researchers at Lawrence National Lab in Berkeley, whose analysis and pre-print replication effort is cited in the linked article, are working with, what, quarter-brains?
- pengaru 3y agoPessimal, clearly those are the full, wrinkly brains.
- ska 3y agoThis assumes everyone's primary motivation is $, which just isn't true. I've known super bright and talented people who gone off to wall street or FAANG for big $, but I've also known equally strong people who turned it down for low 6 figures doing the research they wanted to. In both cases some are very happy with their choice, others not so much.
- declan_roberts 3y agoOne limitation here is the required materials, which are likely much easier to get in China. At least one of the materials is a controlled substance by the DEA in the USA.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- typon 3y agoYou will hear many explanations, but the real one is that the US leadership in hard science is fading. We are too cerebral and cyber - Asia has picked up the mantle now.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Zanneth 3y ago[flagged]
- ironborn123 3y agoI may be wrong, but it seems.. US labs dont find replication work exciting enough. If the effect is genuine, good, if not, life goes on. Chinese labs are looking to build credibility, so they will benefit by publicly resolving this.
- ThisIsMyAltFace 3y agoIt turns out outsourcing all of your manufacturing capability to another country has higher order consequences.
- swader999 3y agoIt's hard to get red phosphorous in USA.
- pharrington 3y agoIn addition to what the other commenters said, I'm imagining most of the replication attempts in the USA are happening in chemical corporations. Compared to academic labs, the corps have much easier access to highly regulated materials and FAR stricter communication protocols.
- lamontcg 3y agoArgonne doesn't need to make a name for itself, they already are a "global brand" in science. They won't jump to publish a video on social media of the first replication of diamagnetism that they get. They'll be putting together a definitive and defensible paper on the production and properties of the material. That will take longer. And if they can't replicate it, then it'll drag on longer without hearing anything from them, since they'll have to try multiple different methods and reach out to the authors, and iterate until they've exhausted enough possibilities that they feel confident enough publishing a failure to replicate.
- 0xDEF 3y agoBecause there has literally only been 2-3 weekdays since the LK-99 revelation. Do you expect American and European scientists to work during weekends?
- Eduard 3y agoI expect plenty of scientists to be excited enough to replicate a potential breakthrough in their labs on a weekend, just as half of HN enjoys experimenting with the latest LLMs over the weekend for fun and curiosity.
- floxy 3y agoThe original paper dropped July 22nd: https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.12037 https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.12037
- fluidcruft 3y agoWith China's research environment things happen really fast--you just never know what you're going to get. Sometimes you get superconductors and sometimes you get COVID.
- joefigura 3y agoI mean it's been like 3 weekdays since the preprint was widely noticed. Labs in the U.S. are working on it and will publish. I don't think the difference between publishing a replication in 3 days or 2 weeks is meaningful to make inferences about the two countries
- ChatGTP 3y agoBecause China is a new global super power on many fronts including science, engineering and manufacturing ?
- elfbargpt 3y agoThroughout this whole saga I've had this feeling that at the very least we can rely on China to really pursue this new development to it's logical end. It's kind of sad, but I don't think I can say the same about the US at this moment. You know for a fact China's going to JUMP on this, figure out if it works or not, and iterate.
- Cypher 3y agoChina leads the way, US wants to decline and rest
- _yb2s 3y agoI don't get the "disappointment" with USA scientists in this thread not having yet published a replication. There has only been one weekday since the LK-99 revelation came to light. Have some patience. The analysis from this article is a publication from Berkeley National Lab that has already come out, and Argonne National Lab has announced they have synthesized the material as of yesterday and will release results from their replication attempt in the next few days.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- orangepurple 3y agoChina has more people, more money to spend on research, more equipment, more access to raw materials and chemicals, more manufacturing base, more STEM graduates, more everything, and all of that by huge margins. USA scientists will eventually put something out, but 10x more slowly than China.
- _yb2s 3y agoI'm not looking at official numbers here, but in my field (academic biotech research) I still don't see much innovation coming out of China. All of what you say is true, yet in academic research China is still far behind the USA in nearly every field. They haven't yet been able to build institutions with the staff, structure, and culture needed. That will likely change in time, but at present the best Chinese scientists are still coming to the USA to work, and staying here. Despite the USA having a lot more research output, a substantial fraction of the top scientists in the USA are from China. My Chinese colleagues tell me that the bureaucracy and authoritarianism in Chinese institutions puts a lot of hurdles in place when trying to do research. Simply buying equipment, hiring staff, etc. is a nightmare, and results in "evaporative cooling" where the top researchers with the option to work anywhere don't tolerate this and leave. Edit: I will also add that in some sense US academia is supported by overcharging Chinese students for tuition. If and when Chinese institutions get to the point where the best students want to stay there, there will be a huge crisis in US universities, possibly being unable to support tenured staff.