7 ms·

Why Kundera never went home

ycombinete 3y ago
While reading it it felt like the author of this article had an axe to grind. His bitterness towards Havel felt palpable, and some quick googling shows that he's definitely not a neutral party: As far back as 2014, when he was _First Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs_ he was criticizing Havel and his policies from a policy standpoint: https://www.praguepost.com/czech-news/czech-foreign-policy-abandons-havel https://www.praguepost.com/czech-news/czech-foreign-policy-a... He pitches the issues between Havel and Kundera as ideological, and representative: Their exchange reflected the fault line between democratic-socialist and liberal intellectuals: Kundera argued for a new model of society that would be free and fair, avoiding the vices of both Western capitalism and Eastern European authoritarianism; Havel defended Western capitalism as the only desirable model, needing fine tuning, but no major revision. And his position on the ideological battle is quite clear in the book he published titled Budoucnost Levice bez Liberalismu_ (The future of the left without liberalism). This isn't to say the article isn't accurate or interesting. (I loved both Kundera's The Unbearable Lightness of Being; and Havel's Summer Meditations). But I think it's useful context, and I'm definitely taking its contents with a pinch of salt, and double checking the falsifiable claims therein.
- purple_elephant 3y ago
  > While reading it it felt like the author of this article had an axe to grind. In the last sentences of the article, the author shows his true colors and advocates for a "multipolar world", which is basically a politically-correct way of saying "we should get closer to Russia". And indeed, if you look him up, you might learn that he signed a petition calling for an end to support for Ukraine[1] and he frequently speaks out against NATO and defends Russia[2][3] [1] - https://voxukraine.org/en/russian-disinformation-narratives-in-czech-republic-in-january-2023-policy-brief-within-kremlin-watchers-movement-project https://voxukraine.org/en/russian-disinformation-narratives-... [2] - https://ct24.ceskatelevize.cz/svet/3439336-valka-neni-v-ruskem-zajmu-tvrdi-drulak-macron-s-putinem-ale-shodu-nenalezli-hodnoti https://ct24.ceskatelevize.cz/svet/3439336-valka-neni-v-rusk... [3] - https://tass.com/world/1460895 https://tass.com/world/1460895
  - boffinAudio 3y ago
    >"multipolar world" Its more of a polite way of saying a great deal of the rest of the world does not want to live in a unipolar world run by the USA and its allies. So, not quite the dialectic that one would suppose. Russia is but one party to that ideology - there are many, many more, and thats what makes it multipolar.
    - lajosbacs 3y ago
      No, it is a hidden way of saying that small countries have no choice of their own and they have to belong to some pole. And as luck would have it, the closest pole to central Europe would be Russia! How can someone not want that?
      - boffinAudio 3y ago
        Nonsense. That's an entirely pro-American-centric way of looking at the multipolar proposition. You've gotten too used to the hegemony. Other nations are sick of American/Western influence in their politics - which is vast and extensive, and: undeniably corrupt. A Multipolar World is one in which the sovereign rights of nations are respected and not superseded/subjugated by extra-national entities/agencies which do not answer to the democracies or indeed legislature of the nation involved. A unipolar world is one where a single nation can call up a collective cabal to form an imperial army and invade and destroy countless other nations around the world, and not a single other nation can stand against that cabal and bring its war criminals to justice. A Multipolar world is one in which small countries do have a choice of their own - and they can thus choose to eschew American hegemony. That is happening across the globe in spite of all attempts by America's hegemonic organs to maintain the iron grip they have had for decades over the worlds poor. Thankfully.
        lajosbacs 3y ago
        wow But ok, I'll give you that -- I prefer a unipolar world with US hegemony or whatnot rather than a multipolar world where I have to live in the Russian part (which by the way absolutely never respected the nations that it had subjugated, convince me that I'm wrong).
fsckboy 3y ago
>I was in the third year of my mission as Czech ambassador to France I hate to be that guy, but isn't the Czech Ambassador's job to be dealing with (listening to) the French État (govt), while it's a Czech Consul's job to handle matters for ordinary citizens? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consul_(representative) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consul_(representative) A consul is an official representative of a government who resides in a foreign country to assist and protect citizens of the consul's country, and to promote and facilitate commercial and diplomatic relations between the two countries...Unlike an ambassador, who serves as the singular representative of one government to another, a state may appoint several consuls in a foreign nation, typically in major cities; consuls are usually tasked with providing assistance in bureaucratic issues to both citizens of their own country traveling or living abroad and to the citizens of the country in which the consul resides who wish to travel to or trade with the consul's country.
- brmgb 3y ago
  Not really. An ambassador is the head of an embassy while consuls are heads of consulates. A country have one embassy per foreign country but it can have multiple consulates. The Ambassador may have the responsibility traditionally held by a consul on top of being the main representative of their country but sometimes in large country an embassy will itself contain a consulate leading to a situation close to the one you describe. A consul is still a representative and will be expected to interact with the politicians and business representatives of the generally smaller cities they live in. Sometimes countries close embassies but maintain consulates in period of diplomatic trouble and you end up with consuls being de facto ambassadors.
lajosbacs 3y ago
The author hates the post-totalitarian system of the Czech Republic ('89-) and has very pro-Russian views. Just be aware before wasting your time with his article.
- skrebbel 3y ago
  I read the whole thing and found nothing remotely pro-Russian. Care to elaborate?
  - lajosbacs 3y ago
    Did not say this article in particular, but its author. Other commenters posted links. But basically he is pushing the Russian whataboutist narrative.
    - skrebbel 3y ago
      Ah yeah I misunderstood, thanks. That said, I really couldn't find much of the Russian whataboutist narrative in the article. It’s clear the author doesn’t love everything about western capitalism, but that, I think, is a widely held opinion across Europe. It does not imply, to me, a suggestion that Russian style kleptocratic capitalism is a better form by any means so if the author makes that argument elsewhere, I didn’t see it here. I guess I’m trying to say that I enjoyed the article, and learning that I don’t share the author’s politics hasn’t changed that.
      - lajosbacs 3y ago
        Fair enough. Of course, that is a completely legit view that I also partly hold. However, this author is known for his looking up to a regime that is way worse (or 'not better form' as you say).
        skrebbel 3y ago
        Yeah fair, and I appreciate the context.
morbicer 3y ago
The reason Kundera never returned is because he was ashamed that he snitched to secret police and other intellectuals knew it. Author of the article tries to downplay it with > The article didn’t produce any evidence apart from hearsay and a police protocol mentioning that Kundera was the source of the information. But the evidence was solid, he ruined a young man's life by putting him for 20 years into prison that was almost gulag-like. I think Kundera always regret it and that's why he withdraw to France and stayed there. Yet he never apologized or even commented on that topic. I grew up with his books and they had great impact on me when I was 18. He's a great writer. I wouldn't even mind that he snitched if he went through some acknowledgment and redemption. But he hasn't and remains a flawed character in my eyes. Almost every Czech author who emigrated helped the dissent that stayed home in some way. He didn't. Havel is a great man, one of our greatest. He's a fine author. Kundera is a great author. Not a fine man.
- tbitrust 3y ago
  Could you point to this evidence? And how do you know that that is what kept him from returning to his country?
  - MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
    1. It didn't. He did come back quite regularly. The article simply ommits that. 2. The evidence is mostly based on a police report which names Kundera. You could make a case that the secret police would occasionally falsify these things, but in general they'd also do this for a reason (mostly because they'd use for some blackmail / publicity stunt). This does not seem to be the case here... https://www.respekt.cz/respekt-in-english/milan-kundera-s-denunciation https://www.respekt.cz/respekt-in-english/milan-kundera-s-de...
    - saiya-jin 3y ago
      Visiting back is not what he meant, rather a permanent move. The thing is, regardless of him collaborating with regime, is that if you spend decades elsewhere, its very hard to come back. The "back" changes without you being part of it, so technically its impossible and you move into relatively foreign place with people you know and don't in the same time, even if folks still speak your language. Also, I presume most of you don't know this, but if he had in 90s any longing for home after communism fell, a quick visit would cure practically anybody. Society was a mess, wolves robbing state and society of everything possible, leaving bloody trails everywhere. People were beheaded (in my town one morning a cop's head was found on top of his car), or dissolved in acid (again even people my parents actually knew). Ministers were mafia-style executed in broad day (still not solved). Common folks were robbed in privatizations of state's properties (literally some form of ponzi scheme or worse were happening on state level). Organized crime and top politicians were very tightly intertwined. This all improved nowadays but not as much as we would like. If you see this and much much more, why on earth would anybody move from France? That's much more advanced, free and intellectual-friendly society, at that time by mega-parsecs.
batushka3 3y ago
This apologetic article deliberatley doesn't include name of Miroslav Dvořáček, a man that spend 10 years in prison. He went there because Kundera gave him in. This is half mentioned.
MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
Oh crap. I'm quite ashamed this kind of internal CZ infighting makes it to the front page of HN. Please everyone, read this article with a pretty big pinch of salt. The title itself is misleading at best. Kundera "did" visit Prague pretty regularly in the 90s and 2000s. And the text doesn't get any better from there... There already are a few comments about the author, but long story short - Petr Drulak is pretty well known in CZ for his support of weird / fringe political movements and parties. It's a pretty strange / convoluted story, mainly because he's been a high official in CZ diplomacy (foreign affairs ministry, ambassador to France, university professor). His articles are usually fairly complex, use a lot of cultural references, but they are ultimately a cargo cult. In the end no matter through which paths his arguments go, they always invariably end up in the same place. The place is "EU bad, Havel bad, NGOs bad, American domination bad, free market / liberalism good, cooperation with China / Russia good, old times / conservative worldview good".
hmmmcurious1 3y ago
Oh it seems Russians are increasing their active measures. Im seeing a ton of russian biased articles in germany as well. Mostly to fracture european unity and increase far right party mindshare
rebolek 3y ago
Wow, who could have guessed an article by Petr Drulák would hit HN frontpage. Please, don't take this guy seriously. Yes, he was an ambassador to France and it's a shame to our country that this person held such job. Moreover, if you read the article, you'll realize it's not about Kundera's reasons for not returning (his real friens said that he was used to living in France), but mostly about Drulák's hatred for Havel. Why Drulák hates Havel so much, I don't know. Probably because Drulák is idiot and Havel isn't.
wangdong0756 3y ago
who cares
HenryBemis 3y ago
For personalities like his, what comes to my mind is some episodes of Star Trek - TNG, where someone walks into the Holodeck and asks the Computer to "create the persona of person X based on their writings, psychological profile, image from photographs, etc." and the Holodeck pulls together an Einstein, (or Hawking on the card playing scene) and then you get to interact with that persona. I expect (wish) that with AI, VR, LLM (and other similar acronyms), in my lifetime we will be able to do the same. I can only imagine having a coffee with some personalities (Plato, Aristotle, Marcus Aurelius, Einstein, Alice Cooper, et al) and being taught about their lives, beliefs, absorbing wisdom, etc.
- krapp 3y ago
  >I can only imagine having a coffee with some personalities (Plato, Aristotle, Marcus Aurelius, Einstein, Alice Cooper, et al) and being taught about their lives, beliefs, absorbing wisdom, etc. You wouldn't be having coffee with them, you would be having coffee with an AI generated facsimile, operating under the assumption that all available information on the web is factually accurate, and that somehow the whole is equal to, or greater than, the sum of its parts. They wouldn't be able to tell you anything new, or offer any real insight into the life or thoughts of the actual person they represent. There is no wisdom for you to absorb that doesn't come from external sources. It's all fake. Hollow. You'd be better off just reading the things they wrote, or a biography about their lives than letting the cancer of hyperreality spread even further than it has.
emmelaich 3y ago
More on the Havel/Kundera relationship: https://reason.com/2023/07/14/milan-kunderas-eternal-feud-with-vaclav-havel/ https://reason.com/2023/07/14/milan-kunderas-eternal-feud-wi...
Somteencead 3y ago
The exploration of the themes in Kundera's novels, particularly the ideas of nostalgia and loss, and how they reflect his own personal experiences adds a layer of depth to his literary work. It's a testament to the intricate interplay between an author's life and their creations.

While reading it it felt like the author of this article had an axe to grind. His bitterness towards Havel felt palpable, and some quick googling shows that he's definitely not a neutral party: As far back as 2014, when he was _First Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs_ he was criticizing Havel and his policies from a policy standpoint: https://www.praguepost.com/czech-news/czech-foreign-policy-abandons-havel https://www.praguepost.com/czech-news/czech-foreign-policy-a... He pitches the issues between Havel and Kundera as ideological, and representative: Their exchange reflected the fault line between democratic-socialist and liberal intellectuals: Kundera argued for a new model of society that would be free and fair, avoiding the vices of both Western capitalism and Eastern European authoritarianism; Havel defended Western capitalism as the only desirable model, needing fine tuning, but no major revision. And his position on the ideological battle is quite clear in the book he published titled Budoucnost Levice bez Liberalismu_ (The future of the left without liberalism). This isn't to say the article isn't accurate or interesting. (I loved both Kundera's The Unbearable Lightness of Being; and Havel's Summer Meditations). But I think it's useful context, and I'm definitely taking its contents with a pinch of salt, and double checking the falsifiable claims therein.

purple_elephant 3y ago
> While reading it it felt like the author of this article had an axe to grind. In the last sentences of the article, the author shows his true colors and advocates for a "multipolar world", which is basically a politically-correct way of saying "we should get closer to Russia". And indeed, if you look him up, you might learn that he signed a petition calling for an end to support for Ukraine[1] and he frequently speaks out against NATO and defends Russia[2][3] [1] - https://voxukraine.org/en/russian-disinformation-narratives-in-czech-republic-in-january-2023-policy-brief-within-kremlin-watchers-movement-project https://voxukraine.org/en/russian-disinformation-narratives-... [2] - https://ct24.ceskatelevize.cz/svet/3439336-valka-neni-v-ruskem-zajmu-tvrdi-drulak-macron-s-putinem-ale-shodu-nenalezli-hodnoti https://ct24.ceskatelevize.cz/svet/3439336-valka-neni-v-rusk... [3] - https://tass.com/world/1460895 https://tass.com/world/1460895
- boffinAudio 3y ago
  >"multipolar world" Its more of a polite way of saying a great deal of the rest of the world does not want to live in a unipolar world run by the USA and its allies. So, not quite the dialectic that one would suppose. Russia is but one party to that ideology - there are many, many more, and thats what makes it multipolar.
  - lajosbacs 3y ago
    No, it is a hidden way of saying that small countries have no choice of their own and they have to belong to some pole. And as luck would have it, the closest pole to central Europe would be Russia! How can someone not want that?
    - boffinAudio 3y ago
      Nonsense. That's an entirely pro-American-centric way of looking at the multipolar proposition. You've gotten too used to the hegemony. Other nations are sick of American/Western influence in their politics - which is vast and extensive, and: undeniably corrupt. A Multipolar World is one in which the sovereign rights of nations are respected and not superseded/subjugated by extra-national entities/agencies which do not answer to the democracies or indeed legislature of the nation involved. A unipolar world is one where a single nation can call up a collective cabal to form an imperial army and invade and destroy countless other nations around the world, and not a single other nation can stand against that cabal and bring its war criminals to justice. A Multipolar world is one in which small countries do have a choice of their own - and they can thus choose to eschew American hegemony. That is happening across the globe in spite of all attempts by America's hegemonic organs to maintain the iron grip they have had for decades over the worlds poor. Thankfully.
      - lajosbacs 3y ago
        wow But ok, I'll give you that -- I prefer a unipolar world with US hegemony or whatnot rather than a multipolar world where I have to live in the Russian part (which by the way absolutely never respected the nations that it had subjugated, convince me that I'm wrong).

fsckboy 3y ago

>I was in the third year of my mission as Czech ambassador to France I hate to be that guy, but isn't the Czech Ambassador's job to be dealing with (listening to) the French État (govt), while it's a Czech Consul's job to handle matters for ordinary citizens? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consul_(representative) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consul_(representative) A consul is an official representative of a government who resides in a foreign country to assist and protect citizens of the consul's country, and to promote and facilitate commercial and diplomatic relations between the two countries...Unlike an ambassador, who serves as the singular representative of one government to another, a state may appoint several consuls in a foreign nation, typically in major cities; consuls are usually tasked with providing assistance in bureaucratic issues to both citizens of their own country traveling or living abroad and to the citizens of the country in which the consul resides who wish to travel to or trade with the consul's country.

brmgb 3y ago
Not really. An ambassador is the head of an embassy while consuls are heads of consulates. A country have one embassy per foreign country but it can have multiple consulates. The Ambassador may have the responsibility traditionally held by a consul on top of being the main representative of their country but sometimes in large country an embassy will itself contain a consulate leading to a situation close to the one you describe. A consul is still a representative and will be expected to interact with the politicians and business representatives of the generally smaller cities they live in. Sometimes countries close embassies but maintain consulates in period of diplomatic trouble and you end up with consuls being de facto ambassadors.

lajosbacs 3y ago

The author hates the post-totalitarian system of the Czech Republic ('89-) and has very pro-Russian views. Just be aware before wasting your time with his article.

skrebbel 3y ago
I read the whole thing and found nothing remotely pro-Russian. Care to elaborate?
- lajosbacs 3y ago
  Did not say this article in particular, but its author. Other commenters posted links. But basically he is pushing the Russian whataboutist narrative.
  - skrebbel 3y ago
    Ah yeah I misunderstood, thanks. That said, I really couldn't find much of the Russian whataboutist narrative in the article. It’s clear the author doesn’t love everything about western capitalism, but that, I think, is a widely held opinion across Europe. It does not imply, to me, a suggestion that Russian style kleptocratic capitalism is a better form by any means so if the author makes that argument elsewhere, I didn’t see it here. I guess I’m trying to say that I enjoyed the article, and learning that I don’t share the author’s politics hasn’t changed that.
    - lajosbacs 3y ago
      Fair enough. Of course, that is a completely legit view that I also partly hold. However, this author is known for his looking up to a regime that is way worse (or 'not better form' as you say).
      - skrebbel 3y ago
        Yeah fair, and I appreciate the context.

morbicer 3y ago

The reason Kundera never returned is because he was ashamed that he snitched to secret police and other intellectuals knew it. Author of the article tries to downplay it with > The article didn’t produce any evidence apart from hearsay and a police protocol mentioning that Kundera was the source of the information. But the evidence was solid, he ruined a young man's life by putting him for 20 years into prison that was almost gulag-like. I think Kundera always regret it and that's why he withdraw to France and stayed there. Yet he never apologized or even commented on that topic. I grew up with his books and they had great impact on me when I was 18. He's a great writer. I wouldn't even mind that he snitched if he went through some acknowledgment and redemption. But he hasn't and remains a flawed character in my eyes. Almost every Czech author who emigrated helped the dissent that stayed home in some way. He didn't. Havel is a great man, one of our greatest. He's a fine author. Kundera is a great author. Not a fine man.

tbitrust 3y ago
Could you point to this evidence? And how do you know that that is what kept him from returning to his country?
- MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
  1. It didn't. He did come back quite regularly. The article simply ommits that. 2. The evidence is mostly based on a police report which names Kundera. You could make a case that the secret police would occasionally falsify these things, but in general they'd also do this for a reason (mostly because they'd use for some blackmail / publicity stunt). This does not seem to be the case here... https://www.respekt.cz/respekt-in-english/milan-kundera-s-denunciation https://www.respekt.cz/respekt-in-english/milan-kundera-s-de...
  - saiya-jin 3y ago
    Visiting back is not what he meant, rather a permanent move. The thing is, regardless of him collaborating with regime, is that if you spend decades elsewhere, its very hard to come back. The "back" changes without you being part of it, so technically its impossible and you move into relatively foreign place with people you know and don't in the same time, even if folks still speak your language. Also, I presume most of you don't know this, but if he had in 90s any longing for home after communism fell, a quick visit would cure practically anybody. Society was a mess, wolves robbing state and society of everything possible, leaving bloody trails everywhere. People were beheaded (in my town one morning a cop's head was found on top of his car), or dissolved in acid (again even people my parents actually knew). Ministers were mafia-style executed in broad day (still not solved). Common folks were robbed in privatizations of state's properties (literally some form of ponzi scheme or worse were happening on state level). Organized crime and top politicians were very tightly intertwined. This all improved nowadays but not as much as we would like. If you see this and much much more, why on earth would anybody move from France? That's much more advanced, free and intellectual-friendly society, at that time by mega-parsecs.

batushka3 3y ago

This apologetic article deliberatley doesn't include name of Miroslav Dvořáček, a man that spend 10 years in prison. He went there because Kundera gave him in. This is half mentioned.

MezzoDelCammin 3y ago

Oh crap. I'm quite ashamed this kind of internal CZ infighting makes it to the front page of HN. Please everyone, read this article with a pretty big pinch of salt. The title itself is misleading at best. Kundera "did" visit Prague pretty regularly in the 90s and 2000s. And the text doesn't get any better from there... There already are a few comments about the author, but long story short - Petr Drulak is pretty well known in CZ for his support of weird / fringe political movements and parties. It's a pretty strange / convoluted story, mainly because he's been a high official in CZ diplomacy (foreign affairs ministry, ambassador to France, university professor). His articles are usually fairly complex, use a lot of cultural references, but they are ultimately a cargo cult. In the end no matter through which paths his arguments go, they always invariably end up in the same place. The place is "EU bad, Havel bad, NGOs bad, American domination bad, free market / liberalism good, cooperation with China / Russia good, old times / conservative worldview good".

hmmmcurious1 3y ago

Oh it seems Russians are increasing their active measures. Im seeing a ton of russian biased articles in germany as well. Mostly to fracture european unity and increase far right party mindshare

rebolek 3y ago

Wow, who could have guessed an article by Petr Drulák would hit HN frontpage. Please, don't take this guy seriously. Yes, he was an ambassador to France and it's a shame to our country that this person held such job. Moreover, if you read the article, you'll realize it's not about Kundera's reasons for not returning (his real friens said that he was used to living in France), but mostly about Drulák's hatred for Havel. Why Drulák hates Havel so much, I don't know. Probably because Drulák is idiot and Havel isn't.

wangdong0756 3y ago

who cares

HenryBemis 3y ago

For personalities like his, what comes to my mind is some episodes of Star Trek - TNG, where someone walks into the Holodeck and asks the Computer to "create the persona of person X based on their writings, psychological profile, image from photographs, etc." and the Holodeck pulls together an Einstein, (or Hawking on the card playing scene) and then you get to interact with that persona. I expect (wish) that with AI, VR, LLM (and other similar acronyms), in my lifetime we will be able to do the same. I can only imagine having a coffee with some personalities (Plato, Aristotle, Marcus Aurelius, Einstein, Alice Cooper, et al) and being taught about their lives, beliefs, absorbing wisdom, etc.

krapp 3y ago
>I can only imagine having a coffee with some personalities (Plato, Aristotle, Marcus Aurelius, Einstein, Alice Cooper, et al) and being taught about their lives, beliefs, absorbing wisdom, etc. You wouldn't be having coffee with them, you would be having coffee with an AI generated facsimile, operating under the assumption that all available information on the web is factually accurate, and that somehow the whole is equal to, or greater than, the sum of its parts. They wouldn't be able to tell you anything new, or offer any real insight into the life or thoughts of the actual person they represent. There is no wisdom for you to absorb that doesn't come from external sources. It's all fake. Hollow. You'd be better off just reading the things they wrote, or a biography about their lives than letting the cancer of hyperreality spread even further than it has.

emmelaich 3y ago

More on the Havel/Kundera relationship: https://reason.com/2023/07/14/milan-kunderas-eternal-feud-with-vaclav-havel/ https://reason.com/2023/07/14/milan-kunderas-eternal-feud-wi...

Somteencead 3y ago

The exploration of the themes in Kundera's novels, particularly the ideas of nostalgia and loss, and how they reflect his own personal experiences adds a layer of depth to his literary work. It's a testament to the intricate interplay between an author's life and their creations.