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I think it’s a bigger problem than fake news. Sure, LLMs can generate that, but what they can do much better than prior disinformation automation is have tailor

I think it’s a bigger problem than fake news. Sure, LLMs can generate that, but what they can do much better than prior disinformation automation is have tailored, context-aware conversations. So a nefarious actor could deploy a fleet of AI bots to comment in various internet forums, to both argue down dissenting opinions, as well as build the impression of consensus for whatever point they are arguing. It’s completely within the realm of expectation that you could have a nation-state level initiative to propagandize your enemy’s populace from the inside out. Basically 2015+ Russian disinformation tactics but massively scaled up. And those were already wildly effective. Now extend that to more benign manipulation. Think about the companies that have great grassroots marketing, like Doluth’s darn tough socks being recommended all over Reddit. Now remove the need to have an actually good product because you can get the same result with an AI. A couple hundred/thousand comments a day wouldn’t cost that much, and could give the impression of huge grassroots support of a brand.

echelon 3y ago
> So a nefarious actor could deploy a fleet of AI bots to comment in various internet forums, to both argue down dissenting opinions, as well as build the impression of consensus for whatever point they are arguing. And the dissenting opinion will be able to do the same. Twelve year old kids will be running swarms of these for fun, and the technology will be so widely proliferated that everyone will encounter it daily. "Is that photoshopped?" will morph into "Is that AI?" It'll be so commonplace, it'll cease to be magic.
- appplication 3y ago
  I don’t disagree, but fools will still be fooled. And there are a lot of fools. I do wonder what it means for the future of the internet. I don’t think net good is coming out of this.
  - thatguy0900 3y ago
    Realistically it means Facebook style log in on all sites worth commenting on. The only way to prevent legions of bots, and the only way govs can keep enemy psyops at bay, will be online persona's tied to real life identitys.
    - j16sdiz 3y ago
      Looking at the WorldCoin discussion on HN. Some people are willing to sell their online accounts tied to real life identities.
    - bombolo 3y ago
      But fb is full of bots
  - nradov 3y ago
    Centuries ago, some people had the same concerns about the printing press. If "fools" fell for religious heresies then their souls could be damned to hell for all eternity, at least according to leading experts at the time.
  - felipeerias 3y ago
    It will become even harder to find trustworthy content online. There will be lots more rabbit holes for people to fall into once it becomes commonplace to fake not just individual users but whole communities. I really wonder what this will do to human culture as a whole, in the long term. So far we have relied on cultural artefacts and practices being mostly the work of other humans (directly or through tools). We are about to find out what happens when that is no longer the case.
- bombolo 3y ago
  > And the dissenting opinion will be able to do the same. if they have the money > Twelve year old kids pfft
  - echelon 3y ago
    Shortbets 5 years. This is so going to happen.
klooney 3y ago
> Russian disinformation tactics but massively scaled up. And those were already wildly effective. Russian disinformation's success in the 2016 election is massively over hyped for the usual partisan sour grapes reasons. You cannot move the world with six figures of Facebook ads, if you could, everyone would spend a lot more money on Facebook ads.
- piyh 3y ago
  People have voted with 130 billion dollars a year that Meta ads are an effective means of influence
  - nradov 3y ago
    How many Electoral College votes did those ads change in 2016?
- dukeofdoom 3y ago
  It's far more likely the guy was misinformed by his own government politicians, cultural biases, TV, movies, and media, than any Russian facebook ads. But the matrix is strong.
- lucubratory 3y ago
  Yes, this is the annoying thing about that story. They were definitely trying very hard, and they likely had some effect, but ultimately they just didn't have that much influence, likely significantly under a 0.1% swing. The whole Comey thing was significantly more influential and I believe the consensus is that even that wouldn't have changed the results. Of course, nations still have a right to sovereignty and to be upset when another nation interferes in their internal affairs. I really hope the American public remembers how it felt going forward.
- MattPalmer1086 3y ago
  I see disinformation tactics more broadly as a long term effort undermining the idea that there is anything trustworthy. While there may be specific outcomes that an adversary might favour, the pollution of reasonable discourse alone is a win.
c_crank 3y ago
>It’s completely within the realm of expectation that you could have a nation-state level initiative to propagandize your enemy’s populace from the inside out. Basically 2015+ Russian disinformation tactics but massively scaled up. And those were already wildly effective. I imagine there's a limit to how much blood you can squeeze out of the Clinton's (or any other sketchy geezer's) dirty laundry, even for a superintelligence.

echelon 3y ago

> So a nefarious actor could deploy a fleet of AI bots to comment in various internet forums, to both argue down dissenting opinions, as well as build the impression of consensus for whatever point they are arguing. And the dissenting opinion will be able to do the same. Twelve year old kids will be running swarms of these for fun, and the technology will be so widely proliferated that everyone will encounter it daily. "Is that photoshopped?" will morph into "Is that AI?" It'll be so commonplace, it'll cease to be magic.

appplication 3y ago
I don’t disagree, but fools will still be fooled. And there are a lot of fools. I do wonder what it means for the future of the internet. I don’t think net good is coming out of this.
- thatguy0900 3y ago
  Realistically it means Facebook style log in on all sites worth commenting on. The only way to prevent legions of bots, and the only way govs can keep enemy psyops at bay, will be online persona's tied to real life identitys.
  - j16sdiz 3y ago
    Looking at the WorldCoin discussion on HN. Some people are willing to sell their online accounts tied to real life identities.
  - bombolo 3y ago
    But fb is full of bots
- nradov 3y ago
  Centuries ago, some people had the same concerns about the printing press. If "fools" fell for religious heresies then their souls could be damned to hell for all eternity, at least according to leading experts at the time.
- felipeerias 3y ago
  It will become even harder to find trustworthy content online. There will be lots more rabbit holes for people to fall into once it becomes commonplace to fake not just individual users but whole communities. I really wonder what this will do to human culture as a whole, in the long term. So far we have relied on cultural artefacts and practices being mostly the work of other humans (directly or through tools). We are about to find out what happens when that is no longer the case.
bombolo 3y ago
> And the dissenting opinion will be able to do the same. if they have the money > Twelve year old kids pfft
- echelon 3y ago
  Shortbets 5 years. This is so going to happen.

klooney 3y ago

> Russian disinformation tactics but massively scaled up. And those were already wildly effective. Russian disinformation's success in the 2016 election is massively over hyped for the usual partisan sour grapes reasons. You cannot move the world with six figures of Facebook ads, if you could, everyone would spend a lot more money on Facebook ads.

piyh 3y ago
People have voted with 130 billion dollars a year that Meta ads are an effective means of influence
- nradov 3y ago
  How many Electoral College votes did those ads change in 2016?
dukeofdoom 3y ago
It's far more likely the guy was misinformed by his own government politicians, cultural biases, TV, movies, and media, than any Russian facebook ads. But the matrix is strong.
lucubratory 3y ago
Yes, this is the annoying thing about that story. They were definitely trying very hard, and they likely had some effect, but ultimately they just didn't have that much influence, likely significantly under a 0.1% swing. The whole Comey thing was significantly more influential and I believe the consensus is that even that wouldn't have changed the results. Of course, nations still have a right to sovereignty and to be upset when another nation interferes in their internal affairs. I really hope the American public remembers how it felt going forward.
MattPalmer1086 3y ago
I see disinformation tactics more broadly as a long term effort undermining the idea that there is anything trustworthy. While there may be specific outcomes that an adversary might favour, the pollution of reasonable discourse alone is a win.

c_crank 3y ago

>It’s completely within the realm of expectation that you could have a nation-state level initiative to propagandize your enemy’s populace from the inside out. Basically 2015+ Russian disinformation tactics but massively scaled up. And those were already wildly effective. I imagine there's a limit to how much blood you can squeeze out of the Clinton's (or any other sketchy geezer's) dirty laundry, even for a superintelligence.