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Working as a labourer wrecked my back. I live with the pain every second of my life now. If they want more people to do this, they should pay them more. There i

Working as a labourer wrecked my back. I live with the pain every second of my life now. If they want more people to do this, they should pay them more. There is no such thing as a labour shortage - EVER. This is a stupid term. There is a pay shortage instead.

throwaway5959 3y ago
Is there a way someone could avoid wrecking their back in the kind of work you did or is it inevitable? Like it just takes one accident? I'm really sorry that you're in pain constantly. My wife has a bad back from a motorcycle accident and it's always an off-and-on thing for her. :(
- SantalBlush 3y ago
  Sometimes it's an accident, sometimes it's repetitive motion. I worked in a shop where people had carpal tunnel from handling parts the same way for years, or bad eyes from welders. It really depends. Of course, some people take more precautions than others, and that helps, but it's no guarantee of safety.
- joeman1000 3y ago
  I think it's the nature of being a labourer, really. Your body is the machine, energy has to move through it by way of forces. Our spines are just not that great at holding up under the forces. Sorry to hear about your wife's situation, too. If she has an office job a nice chair goes such a long way. I got a HM Embody and can say that it improved my ability to work, since there's a lot less pain now.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  Depends on the job and the ergonomics involved but in general: posture. Most people just have really bad posture in general. Even while standing or sitting. There are proper postures to do a lot of activities and they are frequently not observed. Maintaining proper posture is a skill that must be trained until you don't have to think about it. Even something "mindlessly simple" like lifting a heavy object off the ground and carrying it somewhere requires proper posture and technique to reduce chance of injuries. Reduce, not eliminate. You can do everything right and still get injured. When lifting things off the ground, most people will flex and extend the torso instead of using their much stronger leg muscles. The better form is to squat down by flexing the thighs, pick up the object then lift it up by extending the thighs, all while maintaining the spine aligned. Physical education and conditioning is important in these jobs. In our every day lives.
- RoyalHenOil 3y ago
  I did physical labor on a commercial farm for eight years, and I only left because of a change in management that I disagreed with. After that, I got an office job, and it's honestly a lot harder on my body; I am way more sore and achey all the time now. The job before it was retail (standing all day), and that was better than office work, but still nowhere as good as getting real exercise all day long. So there are ways to do physical labor that do not harm you, but a lot of these come down to management and are not up to the individual employee. You could definitely hurt yourself very badly if you do it wrong (which you won't generally do naturally -- our bodies give us lots of warnings -- but pressure from above can make you ignore those warnings and drastically shorten your working life). Fortunately, the company where I did labor really tried to be a healthy place to work, and that made such a huge difference. A lot of my coworkers had been there for 30 years or more, and they were still zipping around like they were 20. These are some things that really help: - The work needs to not be too repetitive (you need to switch tasks several times a day, and each task needs to use different parts of your body). - You need breaks. And not just at set times of day, but also just whenever you need it. If you do something to yourself that feels funny or not quite right (a warning sign that you are on the verge of a sprain or some other injury), you need to be able to stop working immediately until the feeling passes. - You need to do work that is within your capability. It's OK to work extremely hard, to go home exhausted, and to feel muscle soreness the next day. But if you do something you're not strong enough or quick enough to handle with total control, you are likely to make mistakes that lead to injuries (tripping, dropping something, using poor form, etc.). Such injuries can be severe and lifelong, so you should absolutely never work at the edge of your ability. - You need to be well-slept and well-hydrated (cold water and electrolytes should be available at all times, with absolutely no delay), and you must have appropriate clothing and a way to temporarily escape from the heat if you suddenly feel faint. You can work extremely hard under surprisingly harsh conditions (I did hard labor in humid, 100-110 F greenhouses day after day and felt great), so long as your body's basic needs are met.
- nradov 3y ago
  It's not absolutely inevitable, but if you spend 40 years doing hard manual labor then a disabling fall is quite likely. All it takes is a moment of inattention or a mistake by a sloppy co-worker. This is one of several root causes behind our national opioid addiction epidemic. While pharmaceutical companies and doctors bear much of the blame, there are millions of people who suffer chronic pain from work injuries that can't be fully repaired.
mcculley 3y ago
There are specific labor categories that cannot be filled just by paying more. They require more training and experience. So I don’t believe your assertion about “EVER”. I have been running a tugboat company for a few years now and there is definitely a labor shortage. Licensed tugboat captains are retiring/dying faster than new licenses are being granted. The very fastest we could theoretically turn an unlicensed deckhand into a licensed captain is three years of sea time. We are experiencing a shortage of labor.
- ska 3y ago
  While this is true in the short term, it usually means the roles didn’t pay enough to keep the “funnel” open, so it’s an aspect of the same problem.
  - mcculley 3y ago
    There is still a shortage now, regardless of failures to predict the future.
    - ska 3y ago
      The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago… At the end of the day, industries are principally responsible for the health of their workforce overall. If there is a shortage, it is a failure of leadership. That is why “labor shortage” is such a mealy-mouthed term. It treats labor as external to the process, something someone else is supposed to “provide”
      - mcculley 3y ago
        The failures of industry and government in this case are obvious. That doesn’t change the fact that there is a shortage. I agree the shortage is due to myopia.
- omginternets 3y ago
  I would hazard a guess that the replacement rate has fallen below the attrition rate precisely because pay has not kept up with inflation, which would fall exactly in line with the parent poster’s argument.
vpastore 3y ago
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tzs 3y ago
> There is no such thing as a labour shortage - EVER What about during WWII in the United States? A large number of people had to leave their jobs because they were drafted for the war.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
cashsterling 3y ago
I know many people who have worked in trades their entire career: roofing, electrical, plumbing, general construction, forestry service, etc. I worked construction and electrical part-time early in my life. Some have messed up back & knees... others don't. The big difference between the groups is their level of activity outside of the job and their fitness level; the guys who work out, and have worked out for decades, and are active outside their job are all in good health... no back problems, no knee problems, no shoulder problems, etc. Some of these guys are in their 60's now and retired. I'm not judging... just saying it is possible to work a heavy labor job and not screw up your body.
- FreshStart 3y ago
  Bullshit. The arrogance of the idea alone, that somebody after 12h of physical labor should do sports. Shows you how disconnected some princlings are from the world. Your friends own and manage construction company, they oversee and don't perform the work.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
    Overreact much? I had a friend who was a carpenter and did exactly that. Refused to work on his own house, though, so it looked like a dump. But he had no problems working out after putting in a full day of swinging a hammer.
speby 3y ago
This rationale doesn't make a ton of sense. Say they had paid you more. You'd still have these back issues. You wouldn't say, "I have these back issues every day of my life now but at least they paid me $2X instead of $X" ...
- Shawnj2 3y ago
  If you pay people enough you can get them to do nearly anything and there is currently a job shortage.
syndicatedjelly 3y ago
So would you just do any job as long as the pay was high enough?
- haktai 3y ago
  [dead]

throwaway5959 3y ago

Is there a way someone could avoid wrecking their back in the kind of work you did or is it inevitable? Like it just takes one accident? I'm really sorry that you're in pain constantly. My wife has a bad back from a motorcycle accident and it's always an off-and-on thing for her. :(

SantalBlush 3y ago
Sometimes it's an accident, sometimes it's repetitive motion. I worked in a shop where people had carpal tunnel from handling parts the same way for years, or bad eyes from welders. It really depends. Of course, some people take more precautions than others, and that helps, but it's no guarantee of safety.
joeman1000 3y ago
I think it's the nature of being a labourer, really. Your body is the machine, energy has to move through it by way of forces. Our spines are just not that great at holding up under the forces. Sorry to hear about your wife's situation, too. If she has an office job a nice chair goes such a long way. I got a HM Embody and can say that it improved my ability to work, since there's a lot less pain now.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
Depends on the job and the ergonomics involved but in general: posture. Most people just have really bad posture in general. Even while standing or sitting. There are proper postures to do a lot of activities and they are frequently not observed. Maintaining proper posture is a skill that must be trained until you don't have to think about it. Even something "mindlessly simple" like lifting a heavy object off the ground and carrying it somewhere requires proper posture and technique to reduce chance of injuries. Reduce, not eliminate. You can do everything right and still get injured. When lifting things off the ground, most people will flex and extend the torso instead of using their much stronger leg muscles. The better form is to squat down by flexing the thighs, pick up the object then lift it up by extending the thighs, all while maintaining the spine aligned. Physical education and conditioning is important in these jobs. In our every day lives.
RoyalHenOil 3y ago
I did physical labor on a commercial farm for eight years, and I only left because of a change in management that I disagreed with. After that, I got an office job, and it's honestly a lot harder on my body; I am way more sore and achey all the time now. The job before it was retail (standing all day), and that was better than office work, but still nowhere as good as getting real exercise all day long. So there are ways to do physical labor that do not harm you, but a lot of these come down to management and are not up to the individual employee. You could definitely hurt yourself very badly if you do it wrong (which you won't generally do naturally -- our bodies give us lots of warnings -- but pressure from above can make you ignore those warnings and drastically shorten your working life). Fortunately, the company where I did labor really tried to be a healthy place to work, and that made such a huge difference. A lot of my coworkers had been there for 30 years or more, and they were still zipping around like they were 20. These are some things that really help: - The work needs to not be too repetitive (you need to switch tasks several times a day, and each task needs to use different parts of your body). - You need breaks. And not just at set times of day, but also just whenever you need it. If you do something to yourself that feels funny or not quite right (a warning sign that you are on the verge of a sprain or some other injury), you need to be able to stop working immediately until the feeling passes. - You need to do work that is within your capability. It's OK to work extremely hard, to go home exhausted, and to feel muscle soreness the next day. But if you do something you're not strong enough or quick enough to handle with total control, you are likely to make mistakes that lead to injuries (tripping, dropping something, using poor form, etc.). Such injuries can be severe and lifelong, so you should absolutely never work at the edge of your ability. - You need to be well-slept and well-hydrated (cold water and electrolytes should be available at all times, with absolutely no delay), and you must have appropriate clothing and a way to temporarily escape from the heat if you suddenly feel faint. You can work extremely hard under surprisingly harsh conditions (I did hard labor in humid, 100-110 F greenhouses day after day and felt great), so long as your body's basic needs are met.
nradov 3y ago
It's not absolutely inevitable, but if you spend 40 years doing hard manual labor then a disabling fall is quite likely. All it takes is a moment of inattention or a mistake by a sloppy co-worker. This is one of several root causes behind our national opioid addiction epidemic. While pharmaceutical companies and doctors bear much of the blame, there are millions of people who suffer chronic pain from work injuries that can't be fully repaired.

mcculley 3y ago

There are specific labor categories that cannot be filled just by paying more. They require more training and experience. So I don’t believe your assertion about “EVER”. I have been running a tugboat company for a few years now and there is definitely a labor shortage. Licensed tugboat captains are retiring/dying faster than new licenses are being granted. The very fastest we could theoretically turn an unlicensed deckhand into a licensed captain is three years of sea time. We are experiencing a shortage of labor.

ska 3y ago
While this is true in the short term, it usually means the roles didn’t pay enough to keep the “funnel” open, so it’s an aspect of the same problem.
- mcculley 3y ago
  There is still a shortage now, regardless of failures to predict the future.
  - ska 3y ago
    The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago… At the end of the day, industries are principally responsible for the health of their workforce overall. If there is a shortage, it is a failure of leadership. That is why “labor shortage” is such a mealy-mouthed term. It treats labor as external to the process, something someone else is supposed to “provide”
    - mcculley 3y ago
      The failures of industry and government in this case are obvious. That doesn’t change the fact that there is a shortage. I agree the shortage is due to myopia.
omginternets 3y ago
I would hazard a guess that the replacement rate has fallen below the attrition rate precisely because pay has not kept up with inflation, which would fall exactly in line with the parent poster’s argument.

vpastore 3y ago

[dead]

tzs 3y ago

> There is no such thing as a labour shortage - EVER What about during WWII in the United States? A large number of people had to leave their jobs because they were drafted for the war.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

cashsterling 3y ago

I know many people who have worked in trades their entire career: roofing, electrical, plumbing, general construction, forestry service, etc. I worked construction and electrical part-time early in my life. Some have messed up back & knees... others don't. The big difference between the groups is their level of activity outside of the job and their fitness level; the guys who work out, and have worked out for decades, and are active outside their job are all in good health... no back problems, no knee problems, no shoulder problems, etc. Some of these guys are in their 60's now and retired. I'm not judging... just saying it is possible to work a heavy labor job and not screw up your body.

FreshStart 3y ago
Bullshit. The arrogance of the idea alone, that somebody after 12h of physical labor should do sports. Shows you how disconnected some princlings are from the world. Your friends own and manage construction company, they oversee and don't perform the work.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
  Overreact much? I had a friend who was a carpenter and did exactly that. Refused to work on his own house, though, so it looked like a dump. But he had no problems working out after putting in a full day of swinging a hammer.

speby 3y ago

This rationale doesn't make a ton of sense. Say they had paid you more. You'd still have these back issues. You wouldn't say, "I have these back issues every day of my life now but at least they paid me $2X instead of $X" ...

Shawnj2 3y ago
If you pay people enough you can get them to do nearly anything and there is currently a job shortage.

syndicatedjelly 3y ago

So would you just do any job as long as the pay was high enough?

haktai 3y ago
[dead]