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Ever since it became legal I have friends who spend majority of their day high. Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a pro

by zer8k 3y ago

Ever since it became legal I have friends who spend majority of their day high. Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction. It's a comparison problem. It won't kill you like alcohol withdrawals will or make you agitated like nicotine will. So then it must be okay right? These same potheads will quote studies and news articles talking about the benefits or just how risk free it is. Its very similar to the way a functional alcoholic will justify their drinking. They even use avoidance language. 20 years ago we called it weed, now we call it "cannabis". Oh, you're not addicted to weed you're just using cannabis every hour of every day. I think legalization didn't help, nor hurt, but the re-branding of weed as "cannabis" while biologically correct gave these type of people a get out of jail free card. If you don't believe me, say to yourself "I smoke weed 8 times a day" versus "I use cannabis 8 times a day". One of them makes you sound like a degenerate, one of them makes you sound like you take a medication. That difference is very important in justifying addiction in the mind of an addict.

episiarch 3y ago
[flagged]
- zer8k 3y ago
  > My eyes are rolling so hard. You convicted them on evidence of their denial? The behavior of an addict doesn't need a degree to see. If you are in a perpetual haze, need it to get up in the morning, and say you do not have a problem you do have a problem. > These strawmen are transparent and juvenile, while substance dependency of every kind is a complicated and common problem that requires far more nuance. This is not worth addressing because it seems like you're just mad. > Whatever axe you're grinding, it's basically unhinged and socially degenerate in and of itself. I've noticed people who like the word "cannabis" take issue with it being called avoidance language. It's the same thing seen in vapes, different variations of alcohol, designer drugs, etc. In fact, vapes follow almost the same model as the "cannabis industry" and do quite a bit to dance around the fact it's a drug. Vape stores in particular will sell to 50mg salt nic as a new user. A weed store will sell you medical grade 80% THC hydro as a first time user. Drugs are drugs. If you use them responsibly you probably aren't smoking/drinking/injecting it to feel normal. The path to profitability is to create addicts. You do this by feeding them more of the addicting substance they they realize. I'm not sure what you're on about but maybe you forgot to toke up before posting.
  - episiarch 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - zer8k 3y ago
      I don't care what people do. I'm not a "karen". I'm reflecting the OP's post. Addiction is addiction and we are talking about it. I'm sorry my opinion is not to continue to let people who have a problem have that problem. As someone who has been an addict I am intimately familiar with both the pipeline to addiction and the behavior of a functional addict. You're the one who engaged in childish name calling. Maybe back off and get some context.
      - maxbond 3y ago
        You can't post a bunch of pejoratives like "pothead" and "degenerate" and then try to claim you aren't expressing a judgement. Addiction is not addiction, either. Not everything has the same addictive potential, and not every substance creates an equally strong addiction. Frankly, you're making a lot of very strong claims about addiction, but it's pretty clear you aren't knowledgeable in the subject.
- networkchad 3y ago
  [dead]
- jonnycomputer 3y ago
  They might try drowning them to prove their innocence instead. /s
- dang 3y ago
  You broke the site guidelines super badly in this thread and you did that at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36853475 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36853475 too. Can you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here? We ban accounts that break them this badly, especially when the account is relatively new. Actually I would normally ban a new(ish) account that posted like this without replying to it, but you also posted some quite good comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36941582 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36941582 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36895303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36895303 ... so I want to give you a chance. If you'd please post like that, and not like this, in the future, you should be fine here.
messe 3y ago
> As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction. Isn't denying an addiction when told one has an addiction also the first sign of not having an addiction? "Methinks the lady doth protest too much" works well and good for a play, but doesn't really meet the traditional standards for evidence.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Terr_ 3y ago
  Yeah, this sounds like a Catch-22 of substance use: If you deny you have a problem, that proves the problem exists. If you affirm you have a problem, that's also proof the problem exists. > There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's own safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane, he had to fly them. If he flew them, he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to, he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle. -- Catch-22 by Joseph Heller Or if you prefer the Monty Python version [0]: > "Will you please listen!? I am not the Messiah, do you understand? HONESTLY!" > "Only the true Messiah denies his divinity!" [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HB7zqP9QNo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HB7zqP9QNo
- omginternets 3y ago
  I think we can agree that using a substance every waking moment is a major red flag.
  - messe 3y ago
    Of course (well, there's some arguments to be made here with regard to prescribed drugs, but let's leave them aside for the minute). The only gripe I was addressing here was the idea that denial = guilt.
bitcoin_anon 3y ago
Most of us who drink coffee or tea are in the same boat. We do it every day, sometimes multiple times a day. There is withdrawal. There is tolerance. The half-life is so long that even if we stop in the morning, we are spending the majority of the day high.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
  Just to add a little more complexity to the equation. Note that there is a weird level of approval for some substances ( coffee, uppers, whatever NY brokers and med students use ), because they help some corporate goals, while those that do not increase bottom line and are even detrimental to it ( alchohol, pot and so on ) are frowned upon, because they lead to downtime. I am mostly thinking out lout.
- QuercusMax 3y ago
  And if you pay attention to how you actually respond to caffeine, it actually has a HUGE effect on your state of mind and how you react to things. Not always in a bad way, but it easily can affect you as much as weed.
  - WillPostForFood 3y ago
    it easily can affect you as much as weed How so? Comparing relatively normal doses, the effects of caffeine seem subtle in comparison.
    - QuercusMax 3y ago
      After going off caffeine for a day or two, drinking a strong cup of coffee or tea on an empty stomach will give me a fair bit of a buzz, to the extent that it feels like my head is floating. Two cups and work can become difficult and I can't sit still. If I drink three cups by mid-afternoon, I begin to feel anxious and slightly paranoid, as if I'm forgetting something important. It also impairs my sleep. If you're a habitual user, you may not even realize how it effects you, and you'll need more dosage to get effects. I'm a very long way from the folks on r/decaf, most of whom I think need some serious help, but it's much more impactful than you may realize.
maxbond 3y ago
> Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction. The first sign of an addiction (at least, the first which is visible to an outside observer) is that it interferes with your life and you won't stop. Until about a week ago, I was a heavy daily cannabis user for a very long time (more than ten years). If you had asked me if I had an addiction, I would have said no. Recently I came to believe I had Cannaboid Hyperemesis Syndrome, a disease for which the only cure is to quit cannabis. So I quit - immediately. I have a gigantic pile of weed in the house (I had just bought more when I started having symptoms), and I pass by it everyday. I just shake my head and go, "darn, wish I could smoke that," and go about my day. That's not a story you're going to hear from an addict. That's not to minimize the experience of people who do experience a cannabis addiction. I have known people I suspect have a problem. But no, cannabis and alcohol continue not to be comparable as far as their harm and addictive potential. (And I have absolutely no regrets about my consumption, it was an incredible medication for my anxiety.)
- qup 3y ago
  How is your anxiety now, if I may ask? Have you tried any alternatives?
  - maxbond 3y ago
    Okay. I'm having a fairly high rate of anxious thoughts but it's bearable. So far they're of the type that can be shaken off easily. I'm sure if I leave it untreated for a few months I'll have some form of breakdown, but while I haven't tried any alternatives yet, I'm looking for a psychiatrist & intend to find a different medication.
- lr4444lr 3y ago
  Probably better than benzos. As a fellow anxiety-sufferer, I strongly encourage you to pursue sleep hygiene to the utmost. It doesn't fix everything for me, but it makes things way more manageable Any feedback on CBD oil? Dosing? Type? I've never used cannabis at all, but I intend to try CBD.
haswell 3y ago
I agree with most of what you're saying here about this being a comparison problem. The one area of major disagreement is regarding the "cannabis" designation. For me, this term is associated with the opposite connotation. When I started taking its effects more seriously, I started using the cannabis word because I feel it lends more respect to the plant. This wasn't originally my idea, and so I'm not alone in this. This respect was part of my own mindset shift on usage away from habitual use. A way to remind myself to take it seriously, and to partake intentionally if/when I do. Most people I know are pretty aware of their "problem" but have no intention of changing it. Calling it one thing over another might be a form of self deception for a few, but self deception will always find some answer. > It won't kill you like alcohol withdrawals will or make you agitated like nicotine will. So then it must be okay right? These same potheads will quote studies and news articles talking about the benefits or just how risk free it is. I do think we have major issues with how we paint these different groups. When someone is an alcoholic, they gain sympathy and support from society proportional to their maladaptive behaviors and/or willingness to address the issue. "Potheads" is almost always derogatory, and I don't think people who struggle with this are seen in the same light as people who struggle with other drugs of abuse, and it's not surprising considering the pretty clear misconceptions the public has about cannabis as a whole. And I think this is important to note, because one of the #1 emotional factors that leads to continued maladaptive substance use is shame. Society has progressed quite a bit towards supporting and celebrating people who struggle with drugs/alcohol. I don't think society has done the same with cannabis. Attitudes are closer to "they're just lazy and it's not even addictive so what's their problem?".
- pstuart 3y ago
  This is how "drug education" has failed us. The status quo is "drugs are bad, m'kay?" and "drinking is fine, everybody does it, just don't drive when drunk". The way forward should be understanding the following: * Let's use the word "drug" for any compound that alters your state of mind for recreational purposes. * Some of these drugs have medical value, but in this context it is about recreational use. * Everybody is different in how they respond to a drug * Most drugs are dangerous when consumed to excess * Most drugs can impair your thinking and should not be used in unsafe conditions * Some drugs can be dangerous due to adulterants (e.g., fentanyl) * One should be mindful in how they consume drugs (not under peer pressure, not appropriate time/place, etc) * If you are going to use a drug, treat it as dessert rather than a meal * Addiction is possible/likely when one consumes a drug frequently in a short amount of time, or by consistent use of it * Addiction can be overcome but it requires serious effort and can be *very* discomforting * The first high is often the "best", and trying to capture that again can lead to addiction * If you think you have a problem with drugs, you probably do, and should seek help in addressing your problem * If you are an addict and you break your addiction you cannot return even once to using again I'm sure there's room for improvement there, but it's a start. Edit: tweaked a tad based on input
vuln 3y ago
"I smoke cannabis 8 times a day.”
rc5150 3y ago
"Potheads", "get-out-of-jail-free", "degenerate", etc. "Ever since it became legal I have friends who spend majority of their day high. Of course, when confronted" Maybe you should quit interrogating your friends to prop up your own puritanical moralities. All I see when I read your post is how much you hate people who use weed.
- omginternets 3y ago
  I didn't read that intent in his post. I don’t think anyone is pointing fingers at you.
  - glonq 3y ago
    I do know several people who develop temporary or permanent paranoia from weed, so maybe that's where the pointy fingers are coming from...
    - omginternets 3y ago
      C’mon, let’s not do that…
  - chayesfss 3y ago
    [dead]
- zer8k 3y ago
  "Hey man have you tried going a couple days without smoking weed?" is not interrogation. It's concern. I don't understand this attitude. Do you not care about the people around you? I'm not smashing my friend's joints or tossing their bongs. I'm asking because I am concerned about their health. What I enjoy about the comments to my comment is it demonstrates how deeply ingrained this righteous indignation is in the "cannabis community". I don't understand your insults. "Puritan", etc. For some reason having concern for friends is now puritanical...what a world. Your focus on dissecting my use of idiom as some sort of in-built hatred for weed smokers is honestly so on point for the HN commenter community its actually almost funny.
twelve40 3y ago
> Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction. this has to be more nuanced, because according to this logic 100% of all humans have this addiction. If you confront a non-addict, they too will tell you that they don't have a problem.
- sdwr 3y ago
  Yes, everyone has addictions. For example, smiling can be addictive. Now, most people aren't "problem smilers", but for some it becomes a crutch and takes over their personality.
  - RoyalHenOil 3y ago
    They weren't talking about a smiling addiction (whatever that means) or any other random addiction. Denying that you have a cannabis addiction says nothing at all about any other addictions you may or may not have. They were talking specifically about cannabis addiction, and suggesting that denial that you have a cannabis addiction is a sign of having a cannabis addiction. (However, this doesn't really make sense because people who are not addicted to cannabis will equally claim to not be addicted to cannabis.)
- lr4444lr 3y ago
  Re-read the full context. He said they spend "the majority of their day high". That's a "very serious" addiction, because their dependence of the drug is erecting defenses in the conscious mind to the denial of the reality that they probably can't stop. On the contrary, if for example I need to take an SSRI to keep depression at bay, I would be perfectly content to tell you that I had a major depressive disorder, and that the drug helps me stay functional - I'm diagnosed, treated, and aware of the fact. Also contrarily, if I smoke a joint every Friday night with my wife after the kids go to bed because we want to relax, but if we can get a baby sitter we'll jump at the chance to go out for a night on the town without weed, then I'm not addicted - I just use the drug situationally because it's my preferred option.
  - 3y ago
catchnear4321 3y ago
> As we know… this was the moment. or was it? no, it was earlier. > Of course, when confronted… of course…
- jddj 3y ago
  Nicely captured. L'essence du puritain.
asdf6677 3y ago
Do they have a good reason not to get high? Alcohol is different because it’s much less healthy, more expensive, and causes hangovers. I can’t think of any side effects of non-smoked cannabis that last beyond the evening except for the stuff that matters in 30 years
Rapzid 3y ago
"I'm innocent!" That's exactly what a criminal would say!
pengaru 3y ago
> Ever since it became legal I have friends who spend majority of their day high. Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction. Before it became legal, I'm willing to bet those friends spent a majority of their day doing something equally unproductive. Be it playing video games, or watching tv, whatever $couch_potato_activity. And they're probably just doing the same stupid thing while high, because it's even more fun that way. It's easy to villify a drug for what would happen either way, you're not proving a causal relationship. Pot and being a lazy slob dovetail quite nicely, just like pizza and beer. Nobody blames pizza and beer for the fat stained-shirt slob who never gets off their ass.
gnulinux 3y ago
Reading just this comment, I'm inclined to think your friend is likely correct. You very clearly have a dangerous bias against THC and it's clear in your rhetoric, for example: > while biologically correct gave these type of people a get out of jail free card. Yikes. I think part of the problem is ever since legalization weed became more mainstream (potentially dangerous) but weed-conservatism (i.e. exaggerating real risks of THC) also became much more common to encounter (also potentially dangerous). The reality is somewhere in between. I do not use THC, but as someone who used it previously and it tremendously helped me, my current mental model and set of anecdotes say you're likely wrong and exaggerating the real risk your friend is under.
- ekam 3y ago
  How is being conservative about weed dangerous?
  - gnulinux 3y ago
    Because THC is shown to be an effective care for many mental and physical problems. THC itself can be dangerous or even very dangerous (psychosis risk etc) but this doesn't warrant being so overly cautious that we miss the forest for the trees. Facts show THC can be a very effective palliative tool, and it's unclear how much damage you can do with short-term regular use.
  - pstuart 3y ago
    It likely corresponds with supporting bad drug laws.
  - thuuuomas 3y ago
    Incarceration is dangerous
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  > You very clearly have a dangerous bias against THC and it's clear in your rhetoric On the topic of biases, I wonder why you consider theirs to be "dangerous". Regardless, their biases to seem to stem from a certain personal experience with marijuana, particularly their friends' habits with it. It's possible this person's "friends who spend majority of their day high" have a substance abuse problem even if not everybody who uses the substance abuses it.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction. No, saying you don’t have an addiction may be a common thing addicts (and non-addicts!) do, but its not even close to the first sign of addiction. Or even a recognized symptom. Or even a recognized danger sign that would call for more intense screening. Its not a useful indicator of addiction at all. > 20 years ago we called it weed, now we call it "cannabis". “Weed”/“pot"/“ganja”/etc. are sonewhat vague slang. “Marijuana” and “hemp” are legal categories. “Cannabis” is a correct, precise term that encompasses both hemp and marijuana.
evandale 3y ago
I smoke weed 8 times a day and I smoke cannabis 8 times a day. Sounds the same to me. Why the hell would the word you use matter? Take your morals and shove them. Go look in the mirror and judge yourself if you want to judge somebody but leave me out of it.
kerkeslager 3y ago
> Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction. We don't know anything of the sort. It's common for addicts to think they aren't addicted. But it's also common for non-addicts to think they aren't addicted, because, you know, they aren't. It's just difficult in many cases to tell whether someone is addicted, and your confidence that you know isn't warranted, nor does it make you particularly helpful to addicts.
- tonyarkles 3y ago
  From a practicality perspective, a decent litmus test I think is "does the behaviour cause problems in your life?" and a follow-on to that is "do you want to stop but feel that you're unable to?" I am addicted to tobacco. It causes me social and relationship grief. It's very hard to stop. Health-wise I don't need a lecture on the long-term harm I am doing, but in the short-term I'm generally going pretty good. Great cardio, decent blood pressure, shrug. I low-key want to stop, but it's not urgent. I am likely addicted to caffeine as well, although suffer virtually zero obvious negative consequences from that other than needing a cup or two throughout the day to feel alert. Someone else in this this thread mentioned losing multiple jobs because of weed. They're likely addicted to it, or suffering from some other kind of mental condition that results in them having poor impulse control/pleasure-seeking behaviour.
bennyschmidt 3y ago
> the re-branding of weed as "cannabis" Clearly "weed" is the slang term and "cannabis" is the name of the plant! > These same potheads This seems more like branding to me :P The ultimate denial has to be the people with ADHD, because of course the only cure for ADHD is daily meth amphetamine use. "It actually calms me down"
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > The ultimate denial has to be the people with ADHD, because of course the only cure for ADHD is daily meth amphetamine use. Pedantically, that's a treatment, not a cure.
  - bennyschmidt 3y ago
    lol
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Maybe not an addiction in the sense that they get shakes and sweats when they quit cold turkey (or risk death), but definitely a dependence that I see in a lot of people; a dependence on weed just to be able to relax. But the side effect of being high all the time is indifference. Things can wait. I don't think the wording makes much of a difference, that's like saying "I drink" vs "I imbibe alcohol". Or as South Park said it, "I'm not having a glass of wine, I'm having six, it's called a tasting and it's classy". But it does become dangerous when people think of it as medicinal, as a kind of self-medication. Some people need it, for sure, but for a lot of people it's self-medicating without dealing with the root issues. But then there's plenty of examples of self-medicating, ranging from sugar, energy drinks, video games, alcohol, sex, work, etc.
skinnymuch 3y ago
None of this is true for me or a few other people I know. I had a rough childhood. I didn’t get help. I tried, but I have debilitating anxiety and the system expects you to be able to manage getting help even if that’s what you need help with. The pandemic broke my brain. The amt of complaining every one did about the lockdowns. All people were talking about was a life I was forced to subsist in because I was never given help. Last year I tried weed and it has helped a lot. I don’t need to say I smoke weed X a day to myself. I’ll just say it to you or anyone else. Sound like a degenerate to who? You? Judgmental people? I got tired of proving I’m not a “degenerate”. I would get off weed to prove to people around me I don’t need it, but it’s never enough. If you don’t think weed is medication then that’s on you.

by zer8k 3y ago

episiarch 3y ago

[flagged]

zer8k 3y ago
> My eyes are rolling so hard. You convicted them on evidence of their denial? The behavior of an addict doesn't need a degree to see. If you are in a perpetual haze, need it to get up in the morning, and say you do not have a problem you do have a problem. > These strawmen are transparent and juvenile, while substance dependency of every kind is a complicated and common problem that requires far more nuance. This is not worth addressing because it seems like you're just mad. > Whatever axe you're grinding, it's basically unhinged and socially degenerate in and of itself. I've noticed people who like the word "cannabis" take issue with it being called avoidance language. It's the same thing seen in vapes, different variations of alcohol, designer drugs, etc. In fact, vapes follow almost the same model as the "cannabis industry" and do quite a bit to dance around the fact it's a drug. Vape stores in particular will sell to 50mg salt nic as a new user. A weed store will sell you medical grade 80% THC hydro as a first time user. Drugs are drugs. If you use them responsibly you probably aren't smoking/drinking/injecting it to feel normal. The path to profitability is to create addicts. You do this by feeding them more of the addicting substance they they realize. I'm not sure what you're on about but maybe you forgot to toke up before posting.
- episiarch 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - zer8k 3y ago
    I don't care what people do. I'm not a "karen". I'm reflecting the OP's post. Addiction is addiction and we are talking about it. I'm sorry my opinion is not to continue to let people who have a problem have that problem. As someone who has been an addict I am intimately familiar with both the pipeline to addiction and the behavior of a functional addict. You're the one who engaged in childish name calling. Maybe back off and get some context.
    - maxbond 3y ago
      You can't post a bunch of pejoratives like "pothead" and "degenerate" and then try to claim you aren't expressing a judgement. Addiction is not addiction, either. Not everything has the same addictive potential, and not every substance creates an equally strong addiction. Frankly, you're making a lot of very strong claims about addiction, but it's pretty clear you aren't knowledgeable in the subject.
networkchad 3y ago
[dead]
jonnycomputer 3y ago
They might try drowning them to prove their innocence instead. /s
dang 3y ago
You broke the site guidelines super badly in this thread and you did that at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36853475 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36853475 too. Can you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here? We ban accounts that break them this badly, especially when the account is relatively new. Actually I would normally ban a new(ish) account that posted like this without replying to it, but you also posted some quite good comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36941582 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36941582 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36895303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36895303 ... so I want to give you a chance. If you'd please post like that, and not like this, in the future, you should be fine here.

messe 3y ago

> As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction. Isn't denying an addiction when told one has an addiction also the first sign of not having an addiction? "Methinks the lady doth protest too much" works well and good for a play, but doesn't really meet the traditional standards for evidence.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Terr_ 3y ago
Yeah, this sounds like a Catch-22 of substance use: If you deny you have a problem, that proves the problem exists. If you affirm you have a problem, that's also proof the problem exists. > There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's own safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane, he had to fly them. If he flew them, he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to, he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle. -- Catch-22 by Joseph Heller Or if you prefer the Monty Python version [0]: > "Will you please listen!? I am not the Messiah, do you understand? HONESTLY!" > "Only the true Messiah denies his divinity!" [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HB7zqP9QNo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HB7zqP9QNo
omginternets 3y ago
I think we can agree that using a substance every waking moment is a major red flag.
- messe 3y ago
  Of course (well, there's some arguments to be made here with regard to prescribed drugs, but let's leave them aside for the minute). The only gripe I was addressing here was the idea that denial = guilt.

bitcoin_anon 3y ago

Most of us who drink coffee or tea are in the same boat. We do it every day, sometimes multiple times a day. There is withdrawal. There is tolerance. The half-life is so long that even if we stop in the morning, we are spending the majority of the day high.

A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
Just to add a little more complexity to the equation. Note that there is a weird level of approval for some substances ( coffee, uppers, whatever NY brokers and med students use ), because they help some corporate goals, while those that do not increase bottom line and are even detrimental to it ( alchohol, pot and so on ) are frowned upon, because they lead to downtime. I am mostly thinking out lout.
QuercusMax 3y ago
And if you pay attention to how you actually respond to caffeine, it actually has a HUGE effect on your state of mind and how you react to things. Not always in a bad way, but it easily can affect you as much as weed.
- WillPostForFood 3y ago
  it easily can affect you as much as weed How so? Comparing relatively normal doses, the effects of caffeine seem subtle in comparison.
  - QuercusMax 3y ago
    After going off caffeine for a day or two, drinking a strong cup of coffee or tea on an empty stomach will give me a fair bit of a buzz, to the extent that it feels like my head is floating. Two cups and work can become difficult and I can't sit still. If I drink three cups by mid-afternoon, I begin to feel anxious and slightly paranoid, as if I'm forgetting something important. It also impairs my sleep. If you're a habitual user, you may not even realize how it effects you, and you'll need more dosage to get effects. I'm a very long way from the folks on r/decaf, most of whom I think need some serious help, but it's much more impactful than you may realize.

maxbond 3y ago

> Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction. The first sign of an addiction (at least, the first which is visible to an outside observer) is that it interferes with your life and you won't stop. Until about a week ago, I was a heavy daily cannabis user for a very long time (more than ten years). If you had asked me if I had an addiction, I would have said no. Recently I came to believe I had Cannaboid Hyperemesis Syndrome, a disease for which the only cure is to quit cannabis. So I quit - immediately. I have a gigantic pile of weed in the house (I had just bought more when I started having symptoms), and I pass by it everyday. I just shake my head and go, "darn, wish I could smoke that," and go about my day. That's not a story you're going to hear from an addict. That's not to minimize the experience of people who do experience a cannabis addiction. I have known people I suspect have a problem. But no, cannabis and alcohol continue not to be comparable as far as their harm and addictive potential. (And I have absolutely no regrets about my consumption, it was an incredible medication for my anxiety.)

qup 3y ago
How is your anxiety now, if I may ask? Have you tried any alternatives?
- maxbond 3y ago
  Okay. I'm having a fairly high rate of anxious thoughts but it's bearable. So far they're of the type that can be shaken off easily. I'm sure if I leave it untreated for a few months I'll have some form of breakdown, but while I haven't tried any alternatives yet, I'm looking for a psychiatrist & intend to find a different medication.
lr4444lr 3y ago
Probably better than benzos. As a fellow anxiety-sufferer, I strongly encourage you to pursue sleep hygiene to the utmost. It doesn't fix everything for me, but it makes things way more manageable Any feedback on CBD oil? Dosing? Type? I've never used cannabis at all, but I intend to try CBD.

haswell 3y ago

I agree with most of what you're saying here about this being a comparison problem. The one area of major disagreement is regarding the "cannabis" designation. For me, this term is associated with the opposite connotation. When I started taking its effects more seriously, I started using the cannabis word because I feel it lends more respect to the plant. This wasn't originally my idea, and so I'm not alone in this. This respect was part of my own mindset shift on usage away from habitual use. A way to remind myself to take it seriously, and to partake intentionally if/when I do. Most people I know are pretty aware of their "problem" but have no intention of changing it. Calling it one thing over another might be a form of self deception for a few, but self deception will always find some answer. > It won't kill you like alcohol withdrawals will or make you agitated like nicotine will. So then it must be okay right? These same potheads will quote studies and news articles talking about the benefits or just how risk free it is. I do think we have major issues with how we paint these different groups. When someone is an alcoholic, they gain sympathy and support from society proportional to their maladaptive behaviors and/or willingness to address the issue. "Potheads" is almost always derogatory, and I don't think people who struggle with this are seen in the same light as people who struggle with other drugs of abuse, and it's not surprising considering the pretty clear misconceptions the public has about cannabis as a whole. And I think this is important to note, because one of the #1 emotional factors that leads to continued maladaptive substance use is shame. Society has progressed quite a bit towards supporting and celebrating people who struggle with drugs/alcohol. I don't think society has done the same with cannabis. Attitudes are closer to "they're just lazy and it's not even addictive so what's their problem?".

pstuart 3y ago
This is how "drug education" has failed us. The status quo is "drugs are bad, m'kay?" and "drinking is fine, everybody does it, just don't drive when drunk". The way forward should be understanding the following: * Let's use the word "drug" for any compound that alters your state of mind for recreational purposes. * Some of these drugs have medical value, but in this context it is about recreational use. * Everybody is different in how they respond to a drug * Most drugs are dangerous when consumed to excess * Most drugs can impair your thinking and should not be used in unsafe conditions * Some drugs can be dangerous due to adulterants (e.g., fentanyl) * One should be mindful in how they consume drugs (not under peer pressure, not appropriate time/place, etc) * If you are going to use a drug, treat it as dessert rather than a meal * Addiction is possible/likely when one consumes a drug frequently in a short amount of time, or by consistent use of it * Addiction can be overcome but it requires serious effort and can be *very* discomforting * The first high is often the "best", and trying to capture that again can lead to addiction * If you think you have a problem with drugs, you probably do, and should seek help in addressing your problem * If you are an addict and you break your addiction you cannot return even once to using again I'm sure there's room for improvement there, but it's a start. Edit: tweaked a tad based on input

vuln 3y ago

"I smoke cannabis 8 times a day.”

rc5150 3y ago

"Potheads", "get-out-of-jail-free", "degenerate", etc. "Ever since it became legal I have friends who spend majority of their day high. Of course, when confronted" Maybe you should quit interrogating your friends to prop up your own puritanical moralities. All I see when I read your post is how much you hate people who use weed.

omginternets 3y ago
I didn't read that intent in his post. I don’t think anyone is pointing fingers at you.
- glonq 3y ago
  I do know several people who develop temporary or permanent paranoia from weed, so maybe that's where the pointy fingers are coming from...
  - omginternets 3y ago
    C’mon, let’s not do that…
- chayesfss 3y ago
  [dead]
zer8k 3y ago
"Hey man have you tried going a couple days without smoking weed?" is not interrogation. It's concern. I don't understand this attitude. Do you not care about the people around you? I'm not smashing my friend's joints or tossing their bongs. I'm asking because I am concerned about their health. What I enjoy about the comments to my comment is it demonstrates how deeply ingrained this righteous indignation is in the "cannabis community". I don't understand your insults. "Puritan", etc. For some reason having concern for friends is now puritanical...what a world. Your focus on dissecting my use of idiom as some sort of in-built hatred for weed smokers is honestly so on point for the HN commenter community its actually almost funny.

twelve40 3y ago

> Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction. this has to be more nuanced, because according to this logic 100% of all humans have this addiction. If you confront a non-addict, they too will tell you that they don't have a problem.

sdwr 3y ago
Yes, everyone has addictions. For example, smiling can be addictive. Now, most people aren't "problem smilers", but for some it becomes a crutch and takes over their personality.
- RoyalHenOil 3y ago
  They weren't talking about a smiling addiction (whatever that means) or any other random addiction. Denying that you have a cannabis addiction says nothing at all about any other addictions you may or may not have. They were talking specifically about cannabis addiction, and suggesting that denial that you have a cannabis addiction is a sign of having a cannabis addiction. (However, this doesn't really make sense because people who are not addicted to cannabis will equally claim to not be addicted to cannabis.)
lr4444lr 3y ago
Re-read the full context. He said they spend "the majority of their day high". That's a "very serious" addiction, because their dependence of the drug is erecting defenses in the conscious mind to the denial of the reality that they probably can't stop. On the contrary, if for example I need to take an SSRI to keep depression at bay, I would be perfectly content to tell you that I had a major depressive disorder, and that the drug helps me stay functional - I'm diagnosed, treated, and aware of the fact. Also contrarily, if I smoke a joint every Friday night with my wife after the kids go to bed because we want to relax, but if we can get a baby sitter we'll jump at the chance to go out for a night on the town without weed, then I'm not addicted - I just use the drug situationally because it's my preferred option.
- 3y ago

catchnear4321 3y ago

> As we know… this was the moment. or was it? no, it was earlier. > Of course, when confronted… of course…

jddj 3y ago
Nicely captured. L'essence du puritain.

asdf6677 3y ago

Do they have a good reason not to get high? Alcohol is different because it’s much less healthy, more expensive, and causes hangovers. I can’t think of any side effects of non-smoked cannabis that last beyond the evening except for the stuff that matters in 30 years

Rapzid 3y ago

"I'm innocent!" That's exactly what a criminal would say!

pengaru 3y ago

> Ever since it became legal I have friends who spend majority of their day high. Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction. Before it became legal, I'm willing to bet those friends spent a majority of their day doing something equally unproductive. Be it playing video games, or watching tv, whatever $couch_potato_activity. And they're probably just doing the same stupid thing while high, because it's even more fun that way. It's easy to villify a drug for what would happen either way, you're not proving a causal relationship. Pot and being a lazy slob dovetail quite nicely, just like pizza and beer. Nobody blames pizza and beer for the fat stained-shirt slob who never gets off their ass.

gnulinux 3y ago

Reading just this comment, I'm inclined to think your friend is likely correct. You very clearly have a dangerous bias against THC and it's clear in your rhetoric, for example: > while biologically correct gave these type of people a get out of jail free card. Yikes. I think part of the problem is ever since legalization weed became more mainstream (potentially dangerous) but weed-conservatism (i.e. exaggerating real risks of THC) also became much more common to encounter (also potentially dangerous). The reality is somewhere in between. I do not use THC, but as someone who used it previously and it tremendously helped me, my current mental model and set of anecdotes say you're likely wrong and exaggerating the real risk your friend is under.

ekam 3y ago
How is being conservative about weed dangerous?
- gnulinux 3y ago
  Because THC is shown to be an effective care for many mental and physical problems. THC itself can be dangerous or even very dangerous (psychosis risk etc) but this doesn't warrant being so overly cautious that we miss the forest for the trees. Facts show THC can be a very effective palliative tool, and it's unclear how much damage you can do with short-term regular use.
- pstuart 3y ago
  It likely corresponds with supporting bad drug laws.
- thuuuomas 3y ago
  Incarceration is dangerous
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
> You very clearly have a dangerous bias against THC and it's clear in your rhetoric On the topic of biases, I wonder why you consider theirs to be "dangerous". Regardless, their biases to seem to stem from a certain personal experience with marijuana, particularly their friends' habits with it. It's possible this person's "friends who spend majority of their day high" have a substance abuse problem even if not everybody who uses the substance abuses it.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction. No, saying you don’t have an addiction may be a common thing addicts (and non-addicts!) do, but its not even close to the first sign of addiction. Or even a recognized symptom. Or even a recognized danger sign that would call for more intense screening. Its not a useful indicator of addiction at all. > 20 years ago we called it weed, now we call it "cannabis". “Weed”/“pot"/“ganja”/etc. are sonewhat vague slang. “Marijuana” and “hemp” are legal categories. “Cannabis” is a correct, precise term that encompasses both hemp and marijuana.

evandale 3y ago

I smoke weed 8 times a day and I smoke cannabis 8 times a day. Sounds the same to me. Why the hell would the word you use matter? Take your morals and shove them. Go look in the mirror and judge yourself if you want to judge somebody but leave me out of it.

kerkeslager 3y ago

> Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction. We don't know anything of the sort. It's common for addicts to think they aren't addicted. But it's also common for non-addicts to think they aren't addicted, because, you know, they aren't. It's just difficult in many cases to tell whether someone is addicted, and your confidence that you know isn't warranted, nor does it make you particularly helpful to addicts.

tonyarkles 3y ago
From a practicality perspective, a decent litmus test I think is "does the behaviour cause problems in your life?" and a follow-on to that is "do you want to stop but feel that you're unable to?" I am addicted to tobacco. It causes me social and relationship grief. It's very hard to stop. Health-wise I don't need a lecture on the long-term harm I am doing, but in the short-term I'm generally going pretty good. Great cardio, decent blood pressure, shrug. I low-key want to stop, but it's not urgent. I am likely addicted to caffeine as well, although suffer virtually zero obvious negative consequences from that other than needing a cup or two throughout the day to feel alert. Someone else in this this thread mentioned losing multiple jobs because of weed. They're likely addicted to it, or suffering from some other kind of mental condition that results in them having poor impulse control/pleasure-seeking behaviour.

bennyschmidt 3y ago

> the re-branding of weed as "cannabis" Clearly "weed" is the slang term and "cannabis" is the name of the plant! > These same potheads This seems more like branding to me :P The ultimate denial has to be the people with ADHD, because of course the only cure for ADHD is daily meth amphetamine use. "It actually calms me down"

dragonwriter 3y ago
> The ultimate denial has to be the people with ADHD, because of course the only cure for ADHD is daily meth amphetamine use. Pedantically, that's a treatment, not a cure.
- bennyschmidt 3y ago
  lol

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

Maybe not an addiction in the sense that they get shakes and sweats when they quit cold turkey (or risk death), but definitely a dependence that I see in a lot of people; a dependence on weed just to be able to relax. But the side effect of being high all the time is indifference. Things can wait. I don't think the wording makes much of a difference, that's like saying "I drink" vs "I imbibe alcohol". Or as South Park said it, "I'm not having a glass of wine, I'm having six, it's called a tasting and it's classy". But it does become dangerous when people think of it as medicinal, as a kind of self-medication. Some people need it, for sure, but for a lot of people it's self-medicating without dealing with the root issues. But then there's plenty of examples of self-medicating, ranging from sugar, energy drinks, video games, alcohol, sex, work, etc.

skinnymuch 3y ago

None of this is true for me or a few other people I know. I had a rough childhood. I didn’t get help. I tried, but I have debilitating anxiety and the system expects you to be able to manage getting help even if that’s what you need help with. The pandemic broke my brain. The amt of complaining every one did about the lockdowns. All people were talking about was a life I was forced to subsist in because I was never given help. Last year I tried weed and it has helped a lot. I don’t need to say I smoke weed X a day to myself. I’ll just say it to you or anyone else. Sound like a degenerate to who? You? Judgmental people? I got tired of proving I’m not a “degenerate”. I would get off weed to prove to people around me I don’t need it, but it’s never enough. If you don’t think weed is medication then that’s on you.