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Amazon requires services on Fire TV to give it 30% of ad impressions or revenue
- wmf 3y agoRoku does the same. At this point I would be surprised if any box or TV isn't taking 30%.
- afavour 3y agoOne of the reasons the state of smart home TV really disappoints me. Logical conclusion is we'll all end up with Netflix HDMI sticks, Hulu sticks etc etc etc. DRM means we're never going to end up with a fully open TV player.
- giancarlostoro 3y agoI'll just opt for the Kodi / Plext TV sticks and call it a day. Or hook it up to a HTPC and call it a day.
- afavour 3y agoSure but pirating all your VOD content is never a mass-market viable solution.
- post-it 3y agoIt sure is me-market viable though.
- nemo8551 3y agoI’m totally not saying I agree and would definitely do it myself……but yes. 100% yes. I’ve been plex for a while but jellyfin looks like I might have a choice of service in future.
- CuriouslyC 3y agoIt was for a long time, the thing that "killed" it was Netflix being very good for a brief moment, while at the same time many pirate sites got shut down and content creators went after people who didn't use a VPN to torrent. Many VPN services are one click to install and $2-5 a month, and the pirate sites are very resilient at this point, so anti-consumer practices could easily drive a resurgence in this form of mass market consumption.
- giancarlostoro 3y agoNetflix was dirt cheap for college students for ages.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- giancarlostoro 3y agoPlex has things it lets you legally stream for free. Whats in your personal library is a whole other story.
- vman81 3y agoYou can keep a copy of every track of music on spotify on a single 4U server, 20 drives or so. That's ~100TB, assuming 5MB per track. Every movie or tv show episode is another couple of PB in 720p or so. Extrapolate the last 20 years of HDD capacity growth (around 300x), and assume that will continue, every single piece of media will fit on a single drive. I know those assumptions aren't a given, but it sure feels like we're heading towards a world where you can just have a local copy of everything always.
- gjsman-1000 3y agoThe dumb thing though is that DRM... kinda works? I know that we techies can bypass it fairly easily, regardless of type... but I do understand the argument that 95%+ of people can't bypass DRM even if they tried their hardest, it's just too complicated for them. Which in a sense makes it effective and purposeful? Ugh.
- jagraff 3y agoThe thing is, it's so easy to get an HD DRM-free copy of pretty much any movie, tv show, etc that there's no real point - anyone who wants to share a copy of anything can do so very easily without bypassing DRM, because someone else will have already done it.
- gjsman-1000 3y ago> it's so easy to get an HD DRM-free copy of pretty much any movie To a techie. The amount of people who find torrenting too confusing and overwhelming or are afraid of legal consequences or don't even know it exists is, once again, the vast majority (unless we are talking about Eastern Europe and third-world countries). Even if you could prove that the US had, say, 10 million people that torrented actively (which is, honestly, a big stretch in my opinion), the pitch to movie studios is that they should abandon DRM because 10 million people can bypass it and 320 million people can't; and 320 million people don't even know the DRM is there or something they should care about. Not a winning sales pitch there.
- cdash 3y agoThe hard part for people is not obtaining a copy of the media which DRM is "supposed" to prevent. The hard part is setting up the multiple services that makes all this convenient with slick interfaces that people are used to similar to Netflix. That would still require just as much effort with or without DRM.
- kodt 3y agoI know there are people who sell Fire sticks on Facebook marketplace with Kodi pre-configured to use shady streaming sites on it. Or they would charge to "jailbreak" your Fire Stick and set it up for you. Many non-tech people would go this route. Not sure if these still work, but they were popular for a while.
- kneebonian 3y agoWhy can't you just plug a Linux box into your TV and use that? Like am I taking crazy pills. I got fed up with the madness of all the streaming sticks, and putting in my password with a crappy remote and ended up dropping $300 on an old desktop from a discount computer store. Spent an hour throwing Ubuntu on it, and now bam, works like a charm. I put the youtube, PBS Kids, and Disney+ (which we later removed) icons on the side so the kids can use it easy. I can stream Hulu if I had an account, I can watch my Disney+, I can watch youtube, I can watch Netflix if I wanted to. Plus I can play steam games on it, set a fun screensaver. Loads of things. The best part is I no longer have to try and put in a 12 character password with mixed case, numbers and symbols over a freaking TV remote. EDIT: Well this blew up more than expected. Many people are pointing out the issues with the quality. I'll be honest I don't care that much about quality, most of the streaming consumption in our house is Wild Kratts, and Bluey anyway. Beyond that though is that I have to have a slightly worse quality, (meaning orders of magnitude better than the VHS I grew up on) to be able to own my computing device, to be able to have the freedom I want to use it. It's a price I'll happily pay. If they day comes that the streamers decide it's not worth it, then at that day I'll be turning it off and going to the Uncle Ted route of things.
- robertlagrant 3y agoWe use an Xbox One with a remote, which works extremely well. With your Ubuntu install, was it hard to get it to go above 720p? I see people in this thread saying that's the max.
- jeffbee 3y agoMost of the major apps have something like scanning a QR code on the display to authorize a device using your mobile, which works well. Others can just cast to a TV, the way YouTube does. But the real problem with just slapping Ubuntu on it is you are losing HD video and often the audio features as well. It's only a good solution if you are indifferent to picture quality.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- afavour 3y ago
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- michaelmior 3y agoAFAIK, Google TV isn't.
- Arrath 3y agohttps://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00279895 https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00279895 Maybe there's a difference between Google TV and an Android TV, but my partner's dad can't buy/rent stuff on Prime Video through his tv, he has to use another device and then can watch it on his tv. He finds it very irksome, to say the least. My understanding is that this came around by Google insisting on the 30% cut of purchases made in the Prime Video app on the tv, and Amazon told them to pound sand. I could of course be wrong, though.
- jyxent 3y agoI think that is a slightly different issue. Google and Apple charge a percentage for any purchases made on their app stores. The equivalent here would be Prime offering a free ad-supported channel and Google requiring them to hand over a percentage of their ad revenue for the channel.
- michaelmior 3y agoI don't think there's any significant difference here between Google TV and Android TV that I'm aware of. I don't think that's a great user experience obviously, but this is different from taking a portion of all the ad revenue which is shown on the device.
- jzb 3y agoI don't love the model, but it's hard to see long term how Roku sustains itself on hardware sales alone. How many new Roku devices does one house need in a 3-5 year period? Investors want recurring revenue streams, and a new Roku device every few years isn't going to do that. Kind of surprised that Roku hasn't been bought up yet.
- southwesterly 3y agoThis is going to end well.
- Ekaros 3y agoI'm waiting for the day when Microsoft starts asking 30% of revenue on Windows 12...
- brianwawok 3y agoThey 100% would if they could.
- amelius 3y agoI'm waiting for the day when TSMC starts asking 30% of revenue for using their FabStore. Or ASML, for that matter.
- itg 3y agoAt this rate, why not having the mining companies charge 30% of revenue for using their metals.
- bentcorner 3y agoAll of the above would if they could, its just that alternatives and competition that prevents it.
- Cu3PO42 3y agoI don't believe there's currently any alternatives to ASML's machines for EUV lithography. Unless you're fine using an older process node with lower efficiency. Of course these nodes are fine for a lot of applications still, but I have trouble believing there's any alternatives for cutting edge CPUs, GPUs, etc.
- amelius 3y ago> if they could Are you sure, even Microsoft had the decency to not extort their business users this much back in the 80s and 90s.
- nikodunk 3y agoI have 7 HDMI slots on my TV, ready for Peacock Stick, Hulu Disney Plus stick, Netflix Stick, Paramount Plus stick, Max Hub etc etc Not more than seven though mmmkay?
- aionaiodfgnio 3y agoSounds like you need a KVM.
- teaearlgraycold 3y agoKludge of Various Media?
- 14u2c 3y agoWhy is that? With no need to handle USB a simple HDMI switch will be much more cost effective.
- rzzzt 3y agoIntroducing the MegaStick: 15 streaming services in a convenient cube!
- kayodelycaon 3y agoYou mean an Apple TV? ;)
- NicoJuicy 3y agoThat's not how it works... Those services get hidden discounts.
- kneebonian 3y agoDid you know that you could just grab an old computer slap Ubuntu on it, and get all of those services through only 1 HDMI slot?
- nehal3m 3y ago
- squigglydonut 3y agoHey people. Did we forget that everyone has access to the internet? It's not like a physical store!!
- stormdennis 3y agoArrrr me hearty!
- hinkley 3y agoTurns out we would in fact download a car.
- gjsman-1000 3y agoMandatory reminder of the Piracy Warning from The IT Crowd: https://youtu.be/ALZZx1xmAzg https://youtu.be/ALZZx1xmAzg
- hinkley 3y agoThat is a parody of a real ad that appeared on American TV about 10 years before the IT Crowd. The original was almost as absurd.
- yomlica8 3y agoRemember when Jesus downloaded all those loaves and fishes and got crucified?
- Booktrope 3y agoWell, the article says, Amazon already charges this wherever Amazon Publishing Services is available. The change is to extend this charge to places where Amazon Publishing Services isn't available. Then the article provides some background info about how Amazon Fire works economically. So, basically, not much new here.
- Workaccount2 3y agoThe trickle down effects of Apple being a $3T corporation that is widely beloved and did it all on the back of a fiercely guarded walled garden.
- neaumusic 3y agoI personally think Apple does things correctly, and they do charge a premium, but they sell good products rather than requiring more of your time and energy (ads)
- candiddevmike 3y agoApple has ads[1][2][3] 1 - https://searchads.apple.com/ https://searchads.apple.com/ 2 - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-aapl-set-to-expand-advertising-bringing-ads-to-maps-tv-and-books-apps-l6tdqqmg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-... 3 - https://gizmodo.com/apple-tv-plus-more-ads-coming-tv-exec-lauren-fry-1850157827 https://gizmodo.com/apple-tv-plus-more-ads-coming-tv-exec-la...
- katbyte 3y agoAFAIK just on the App Store. That’s it.
- intelVISA 3y agoI love Apple, their white walls keep me safe; they even open and read all my letters (bins) for me to double check I'm safe :)
- HWR_14 3y agoThe difference is I feel Apple's walls protect me as well as their profits. I do not feel the same about Amazon/Microsoft/Meta/Google.
- kccqzy 3y ago[flagged]
- dakial1 3y agoPoint #1: This bait-and-switch tactic shouldn't be allowed by consumer regulations (Not in the US, but here in Brazil it would be a no-no) as in the end Amazon is tricking it's use base into paying for the Fire TV as a great deal, when in the end they will pay more for streaming as those costs that Amazon is putting on the streaming services will be paid by them in the end. #2 Wouldn't this movement be (potentially) a great chance for Plex to better position itself in the legal side of streaming? Because by offering a free hub for streaming (even licensing it for hardware sellers like Dlink and others, like Boxee once did) might generate a good revenue stream for them...until somebody buys the whole team (I miss you Boxee!)
- duped 3y agoIt's called the razor-and-blade model, it's not a bait and switch. RE Plex, that's basically what Android TV does, except it's better than Plex (for streaming services and device manufacturers) and has the same model as FireTV
- Timon3 3y agoCan you explain how? The situation here is: - Customers bought the devices without the 30% rule in effect - Amazon introduces the 30% rule - Customers will now be asked higher prices to make up for the lost revenue The razor-and-blade model is about selling one product cheap to increase sales on a complementary good. It's not about a vendor changing the situation, as is the case here.
- Liquix 3y agoPlex Inc. is not a good company. They are eager to collect and sell your data to advertisers. Jellyfin is a great alternative. Plex may share Collected Information as expressly set forth in this Privacy Policy, including the following limited situations: [...] With third parties to improve and deliver advertising to you on our behalf. Plex may also use third-party advertising companies to serve ads, which may, directly or indirectly, collect or use information about user visits to websites and mobile app usage over time and across non-affiliated websites and mobile apps to display advertisements more tailored to users’ interests on this browser or device, and those browsers or devices associated with it. More in the "Data We Collect" section: https://www.plex.tv/about/privacy-legal/ https://www.plex.tv/about/privacy-legal/
- bdcravens 3y agoLow cost computer, free software updates, backend infrastructure, several years of functional life, for $40 in sales (is there any profit there?). Exactly how is it surprising that they need to make some sort of additional revenue via kickback?
- HWR_14 3y agoThe specs are seem roughly equivalent to a raspberry pi, which is produced with far less economies of scale, and sold for a similar price point.
- bdcravens 3y agoThe Pi is sold without peripherals (remote) at that price point, they build little of the software, and given the supply/demand of late, there's a good argument to be made that it's well underpriced. When I had DirecTV Stream, I bought their streaming device (basically an Android steaming device, but they made it super simple to go into programming, feeling more like traditional cable). They cost $120 each.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mdasen 3y agoThe thing I'd point out is that if you're taking 30% of revenue from 4 streaming services, you're getting more revenue than if you operated a streaming service. I agree that these boxes/sticks need some recurring revenue (120% of the revenue of the streaming services). However, should they receive more revenue than the services themselves? If they're taking 30% from Netflix, 30% from Max, 30% from Disney, and 30% from Paramount, they're getting over $16/mo. Should it be $16/mo per user? The problem isn't that they need revenue. It's that the revenue demands seem very high compared to the costs of maintaining those boxes. They aren't looking for $10/year to cover their costs and make some profit. They're looking to get more revenue than those actually creating the content.
- paxys 3y ago
- neaumusic 3y agoadvertisements are saturating everything, and I think chat gpt is replacing google largely due to this, avoiding quora and blogspam
- varelse 3y ago[flagged]
- not2b 3y agoCory Doctorow has been writing about this lately. It seems we are heading back to the economic system that preceded capitalism in Europe: feudalism, where almost all of the gains were taken by rentiers: people who made money based on what they own (land, exclusive rights from the king, etc). Want to sell an app? Pay 30% to the landlord, but only if what you want to sell doesn't conflict with their business model.
- albert_e 3y agointel and AMD : wait maybe we can do that on our hardware too?
- happytiger 3y agoTime to pay the rent for the stuff you thought you owned. Closed ecosystems and walled gardens have all the charm of dental surgery these days but there are all the users. This is why we need more open standards. Open standards mean open competition and helps reduce monopolies.
- kotaKat 3y agoAt what point does a streaming service build an installer that walks you through turning on ADB and push the app over network ADB and just distribute outside Amazon (and Google)? (Sure, this is a lot of effort, but someone might go for the ol' sideload gag.)
- wmf 3y agoDon't give DJI any ideas about starting a streaming service.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- hrdwdmrbl 3y agoA-priori, is there any explanation for a platform charging 30% other than monopoly? Imagine if a grocery store charged 30% for slotting fees?
- prasadjoglekar 3y ago30% is too high, but historically, cable networks gave about 15% of their impressions to the cable or satellite company to sell locally. So, on MTV, you'd see about 15 minutes of ads sold by MTV and 2 minutes of ads from the local car dealership that were sold by the cable co.
- hnburnsy 3y agoApp availabilty will be the replacement for carriage fights we see for sat/cable. Soon you will need multiple devices to have all services.
- PicassoCTs 3y agoSo all this only works if the consumers can not switch back en mass to piracy. Its sort of implicit. Either free computing dies or these companies.
- varispeed 3y agoThat's substantially more than many countries charge Corporation Tax on profits.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- asow92 3y agoFireTV is a roughly a quarter of the OTT market in the US. Content providers could likely boycott the platform and survive if they got together and collectively stood against it.
- ChuckMcM 3y agoI find it amusing that television makers haven't started demanding a share of revenue on TV shows that have ads that they display. /s
- pja 3y agoEvery streaming device manufacturer does this. Roku demands a revenue cut if you want your app on Roku devices, last time I paid for something Amazon Video on my Apple TV Apple forced the transaction to go through Apple Pay and presumably took their cut there. It’s the standard business model in this market: sell a streaming device at or below cost and then turn to the streaming services & tell them that if they want access to the XX million people who own your device they’re going to have to pay up. 30% seems to be the going rate.
- fennecfoxy 3y agoLmao what a joke. Imagine if Mozilla said that they should get 30% of every ad that was viewed within/using Firefox.