4 ms·

Every time I read about space engineering, I'm amazed by how contingencies have contingencies. It's so much careful planning and rigor compared to my world. I c

Every time I read about space engineering, I'm amazed by how contingencies have contingencies. It's so much careful planning and rigor compared to my world. I can always re-compile, re-deploy and regularly realize that my job is not life or death.

swozey 3y ago
I like when people mention that they're "computer doctors." I have some stressful migrations that require a lot of planning and could cost a significant amount money if botched but I can't imagine the additional stress of someones life being at my fingertips.
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  It's tricky. Many moons ago when I was hands-on and stressed about migrations & config, my team lead at the time would say exactly the same thing - his wife is a doctor and her job is way more stressful - People die. And I bought into it as a relief for a while. But... I work on a payroll system. My team does impact people. Mistakes can have important negative consequences to real live individuals - from stress invoked in trying to call help centre and fix their paycheques, to disconnected utilities if they don't get paid correctly/timely, to other downstream consequences. Any number of other IT systems have significant consequences - e.g. airline ticket systems, airbnb bookings, etc. I feel the "nobody died" is a double-edged sword: it can help relieve people of the daily sense of artificial stress, urgency and grind that management may impose; but also builds a false dichotomy / unreasonably binary threshold on when our job matters / impacts ...
  - mcguire 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_data_breaches https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_data_breaches
  - whatshisface 3y ago
    I think one of the greatest contributions launch window aerospace neurosurgeons make to society is the way they cause nobody else to ever feel stress in any way.
Enginerrrd 3y ago
Honestly, I'd say most engineering is like that outside of the software world. In the classic engineering disciplines with actual licensures at the end of the pipeline, the responsibility and ethics of this are ingrained into students from day 1. (Budget and importance of the application doesn't always allow for the indulgence of this though, at least to a point.) This type of thinking also follows from decades of experience. For some reason the software engineering world largely abandoned esteem and respect for all of the above.
- throwawaysleep 3y ago
  Errors in software rarely ever matter and even when they do, can usually be trivially corrected.
  - crooked-v 3y ago
    Except when they do matter, like the Therac-25 deaths or those 737 MAX crashes.
    - nawgz 3y ago
      > 737 MAX crashes To imply this was a software bug is a pretty silly representation - the system was poorly engineered and didn't have proper contingencies for sensor disagreement. This is pretty clearly a design/engineering error with a software component. Besides, the guy said "rarely ever matter" for a reason, not "explicitly never impact things"... Bit of a silly comment from you IMO
      - bumby 3y ago
        To view software in isolation is an equally silly representation. In the physical world, software is part of an overall system that needs to be considered holistically. Most major safety-critical mishaps are the result of several failures, often across different domains. In the case of the 737MAX, the software was a design around a physical constraint; that doesn't mean the software doesn't matter. Most software is designed as a workaround of a certain physical or mental constraint.

swozey 3y ago

I like when people mention that they're "computer doctors." I have some stressful migrations that require a lot of planning and could cost a significant amount money if botched but I can't imagine the additional stress of someones life being at my fingertips.

NikolaNovak 3y ago
It's tricky. Many moons ago when I was hands-on and stressed about migrations & config, my team lead at the time would say exactly the same thing - his wife is a doctor and her job is way more stressful - People die. And I bought into it as a relief for a while. But... I work on a payroll system. My team does impact people. Mistakes can have important negative consequences to real live individuals - from stress invoked in trying to call help centre and fix their paycheques, to disconnected utilities if they don't get paid correctly/timely, to other downstream consequences. Any number of other IT systems have significant consequences - e.g. airline ticket systems, airbnb bookings, etc. I feel the "nobody died" is a double-edged sword: it can help relieve people of the daily sense of artificial stress, urgency and grind that management may impose; but also builds a false dichotomy / unreasonably binary threshold on when our job matters / impacts ...
- mcguire 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_data_breaches https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_data_breaches
- whatshisface 3y ago
  I think one of the greatest contributions launch window aerospace neurosurgeons make to society is the way they cause nobody else to ever feel stress in any way.

Enginerrrd 3y ago

Honestly, I'd say most engineering is like that outside of the software world. In the classic engineering disciplines with actual licensures at the end of the pipeline, the responsibility and ethics of this are ingrained into students from day 1. (Budget and importance of the application doesn't always allow for the indulgence of this though, at least to a point.) This type of thinking also follows from decades of experience. For some reason the software engineering world largely abandoned esteem and respect for all of the above.

throwawaysleep 3y ago
Errors in software rarely ever matter and even when they do, can usually be trivially corrected.
- crooked-v 3y ago
  Except when they do matter, like the Therac-25 deaths or those 737 MAX crashes.
  - nawgz 3y ago
    > 737 MAX crashes To imply this was a software bug is a pretty silly representation - the system was poorly engineered and didn't have proper contingencies for sensor disagreement. This is pretty clearly a design/engineering error with a software component. Besides, the guy said "rarely ever matter" for a reason, not "explicitly never impact things"... Bit of a silly comment from you IMO
    - bumby 3y ago
      To view software in isolation is an equally silly representation. In the physical world, software is part of an overall system that needs to be considered holistically. Most major safety-critical mishaps are the result of several failures, often across different domains. In the case of the 737MAX, the software was a design around a physical constraint; that doesn't mean the software doesn't matter. Most software is designed as a workaround of a certain physical or mental constraint.