5 ms·

> In short, it was remote bricked, by giving it commands to rotate a bit. > But luckily it automatically readjust itself to earth automatically every half year

by burnte 3y ago

> In short, it was remote bricked, by giving it commands to rotate a bit. > But luckily it automatically readjust itself to earth automatically every half year exactly for these events. I remember when bricking something meant it was totally unrecoverable. Now it means "temporarily not working but will automatically heal".

hutzlibu 3y ago
A device that is acting as a brick cannot receive commands and is not useful at all. That is the current status of voyager 2. "Unbricking" will hopefully work automatically, because there is no other option. But that can also fail and there is no way to know, or influence it. I use bricking in the definition of mobile phone tinkerers .. there are many results for unbricking btw, but I just checked and with the first result it seems that Apple now uses unbricking for activating a new device. Because technically before, it is also just a brick - but here I would agree, that it is not a appropriate term, but rather should be for somehow broken devices.
- JdeBP 3y ago
  What this is telling us is that attempting to condense to "it was bricked" has actually introduced ambiguity, and that "brick" doesn't really explain a technical situation. The JPL doco (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36941433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36941433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36942321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36942321) calls it "Command Loss".
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    But you did understood my original comment? I described exactly in what way it "bricked". I used the term in the first place, because this was my first assoziation, when I learned about the situation. That "uppps" feeling when you did something wrong and there is no going back.. (poor guy) "bricking" describes these vibes for me and "Command Loss" does not.
- nomel 3y ago
  It’s not bricked, it’s operating autonomously for some time. They’re incredibly different modes of operation.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    I think it's reasonable to say that it is operating autonomously and is currently "bricked" as a colloquialism. There's a certain helplessness for NASA in this case, which is similar to bricking one's device. Instead of hoping that the repair shop can fix it, they have to hope that their engineering foresight was adequate.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    After trying to optimize my laptops energy settings under linux, I once also ended up with a device that was operating low level autonomously for some time. It just would not accept commands from me, nor the power button, nor anything else. The CPU also wasn't running, but something was. In other words it was effectivly a brick to me. But since it was not a surface pro (I considered buying instead of that one), I could open it and disconnect the battery. And in effect, unbricking it. Quite trivial fix sure, but nearly impossible with many modern devices, where the battery is glued in. My point is, not every mode of operation is desired, especially if you cannot change it. Then you might as well have a brick in terms of usefulness.
    - nomel 3y ago
      No. Your laptop was not operating autonomously, by definition. It was not making its own decisions, to achieve some goal.
      - hutzlibu 3y ago
        Parts of it were. To make some checks for some hardware (as part of an automatic comand line tool). They just got into an infinite loop. Down on the hardware level.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
mindslight 3y ago
> I remember when bricking something meant it was totally unrecoverable It may have seemed that way to you, but actually no. "Bricked" has generally referred to devices that are likely straightforwardly recoverable, but for a lack of documentation from the manufacturer.
- burnte 3y ago
  No, that's not true, and it's never been true. The definition was always "turned into a device which is electronically indistinguishable from a brick and unrecoverable." Maybe an expert could do some deep diving to bring it back, but if it's beyond recovery to most folks, then we'd call it a brick. If you have to desoldier a flash chip and sldier on a new one with a filesystem that isn't trashed or with corrected software, then we've debricked it, but that's really a deep level repair.
  - mindslight 3y ago
    Your division of "experts" vs "most folks" is doing a lot of work here, and speaks to my point. Most folks don't really know how to use say Android fastboot or recovery modes either, yet we wouldn't call a device with a wiped system partition "bricked". Most "bricks" are things like a bootloader getting erased. Reflashing that through the standard process of JTAG or another debug protocol is a straightforward action (after all, the manufacturer has to get the first bootloader on there to begin with). The port pinout and config info just hasn't been publicly documented by the manufacturer, which is what pushes it into the domain of "experts".
    - burnte 3y ago
      If doctors create the term "heart attack" and laypeople misuse it, that doesn't change the definition.
      - mindslight 3y ago
        I don't really know how to connect your analogy. As far as I'm aware, the term "bricked" arose out of software/firmware modding communities (eg Android) to describe devices that were beyond their general abilities to straightforwardly fix.
pohl 3y ago
My device is as worthless as a brick, but only for the 2 or 3 seconds it takes for the tip of my finger to travel to this reset button over here... <Tongue in="cheek"/>
- x3n0ph3n3 3y ago
  Then it's not actually bricked.
phaedrus 3y ago
Instead of saying "bricked" you could say Voyager 2 is "soft locked".
rvz 3y ago
> I remember when bricking something meant it was totally unrecoverable. Precisely. 'Bricking' something means it is unrecoverable and is irreversible. No idea at what point in time the definition was changed to mean 'temporarily not working'.
- sangnoir 3y ago
  Bricking oftentimes can be reversed using JTAG connectors. IMO - bricking describes thr state that a device is not operable, not irrecoverably so - just that its difficult to reverse. Also, it's not a technical term with a rigid definition, hence "soft-bricking"
Ao7bei3s 3y ago
Nothing is ever truly unrecoverable. If a device was built, it can be built again. What is bricked vs recoverable has always greatly depended on time and effort, individual skill level, available hardware/software tools, documentation, crypto keys, physical access, willingness to replace individual parts etc. Sometimes, even within an org, some teams e-waste expensive devices that aren't bricked deeper than what other teams recover from as part of everyday workflow. Taking a typical network device as an example, where do you draw the line? Driving to a remote location to plug the cable into another port, pressing a reset button, booting from USB, flashing a new firmware with TFTP, plugging in an external or internal console cable, opening the case and soldering a header to get access to the console, doing the same with no documentation, or an unknown (but maybe Google-able or reverse engineerable) password, flashing firmware with JTAG, shipping the device back to the engineers (or shipping an engineer to the device)...? It's always been arbitrary.
- Atheros 3y ago
  If you can't fix it or find someone who can, it is bricked. If you are able to fix it then it is not bricked. One device may be bricked to one person but not to another. But that must still be the definition, right? Otherwise the word has no meaning.
- kfrzcode 3y ago
  Hi, I have drilled my hard drives but need to recover them, can you help?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
millerm 3y ago
I got into an argument with a fellow Tesla owner on a forum who was screaming their car was bricked after their 12V battery died. All they had to do was replace the battery. It wasn't bricked. I sure received a lot of vitriol for saying it wasn't bricked. If you can simply perform a maintenance task, it's not bricked.
weinzierl 3y ago
I'd say "totally unrecoverable but physically intact". You wouldn't call a device bricked if it has the form of small pile of ashes. Then "totally unrecoverable" is rare and the term bricked has always been relative. Your bricked device may be as good as new to someone who has a JTAG adaper and knows how to use it.

by burnte 3y ago

hutzlibu 3y ago

A device that is acting as a brick cannot receive commands and is not useful at all. That is the current status of voyager 2. "Unbricking" will hopefully work automatically, because there is no other option. But that can also fail and there is no way to know, or influence it. I use bricking in the definition of mobile phone tinkerers .. there are many results for unbricking btw, but I just checked and with the first result it seems that Apple now uses unbricking for activating a new device. Because technically before, it is also just a brick - but here I would agree, that it is not a appropriate term, but rather should be for somehow broken devices.

JdeBP 3y ago
What this is telling us is that attempting to condense to "it was bricked" has actually introduced ambiguity, and that "brick" doesn't really explain a technical situation. The JPL doco (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36941433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36941433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36942321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36942321) calls it "Command Loss".
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  But you did understood my original comment? I described exactly in what way it "bricked". I used the term in the first place, because this was my first assoziation, when I learned about the situation. That "uppps" feeling when you did something wrong and there is no going back.. (poor guy) "bricking" describes these vibes for me and "Command Loss" does not.
nomel 3y ago
It’s not bricked, it’s operating autonomously for some time. They’re incredibly different modes of operation.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  I think it's reasonable to say that it is operating autonomously and is currently "bricked" as a colloquialism. There's a certain helplessness for NASA in this case, which is similar to bricking one's device. Instead of hoping that the repair shop can fix it, they have to hope that their engineering foresight was adequate.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  After trying to optimize my laptops energy settings under linux, I once also ended up with a device that was operating low level autonomously for some time. It just would not accept commands from me, nor the power button, nor anything else. The CPU also wasn't running, but something was. In other words it was effectivly a brick to me. But since it was not a surface pro (I considered buying instead of that one), I could open it and disconnect the battery. And in effect, unbricking it. Quite trivial fix sure, but nearly impossible with many modern devices, where the battery is glued in. My point is, not every mode of operation is desired, especially if you cannot change it. Then you might as well have a brick in terms of usefulness.
  - nomel 3y ago
    No. Your laptop was not operating autonomously, by definition. It was not making its own decisions, to achieve some goal.
    - hutzlibu 3y ago
      Parts of it were. To make some checks for some hardware (as part of an automatic comand line tool). They just got into an infinite loop. Down on the hardware level.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

mindslight 3y ago

> I remember when bricking something meant it was totally unrecoverable It may have seemed that way to you, but actually no. "Bricked" has generally referred to devices that are likely straightforwardly recoverable, but for a lack of documentation from the manufacturer.

burnte 3y ago
No, that's not true, and it's never been true. The definition was always "turned into a device which is electronically indistinguishable from a brick and unrecoverable." Maybe an expert could do some deep diving to bring it back, but if it's beyond recovery to most folks, then we'd call it a brick. If you have to desoldier a flash chip and sldier on a new one with a filesystem that isn't trashed or with corrected software, then we've debricked it, but that's really a deep level repair.
- mindslight 3y ago
  Your division of "experts" vs "most folks" is doing a lot of work here, and speaks to my point. Most folks don't really know how to use say Android fastboot or recovery modes either, yet we wouldn't call a device with a wiped system partition "bricked". Most "bricks" are things like a bootloader getting erased. Reflashing that through the standard process of JTAG or another debug protocol is a straightforward action (after all, the manufacturer has to get the first bootloader on there to begin with). The port pinout and config info just hasn't been publicly documented by the manufacturer, which is what pushes it into the domain of "experts".
  - burnte 3y ago
    If doctors create the term "heart attack" and laypeople misuse it, that doesn't change the definition.
    - mindslight 3y ago
      I don't really know how to connect your analogy. As far as I'm aware, the term "bricked" arose out of software/firmware modding communities (eg Android) to describe devices that were beyond their general abilities to straightforwardly fix.

pohl 3y ago

My device is as worthless as a brick, but only for the 2 or 3 seconds it takes for the tip of my finger to travel to this reset button over here... <Tongue in="cheek"/>

x3n0ph3n3 3y ago
Then it's not actually bricked.

phaedrus 3y ago

Instead of saying "bricked" you could say Voyager 2 is "soft locked".

rvz 3y ago

> I remember when bricking something meant it was totally unrecoverable. Precisely. 'Bricking' something means it is unrecoverable and is irreversible. No idea at what point in time the definition was changed to mean 'temporarily not working'.

sangnoir 3y ago
Bricking oftentimes can be reversed using JTAG connectors. IMO - bricking describes thr state that a device is not operable, not irrecoverably so - just that its difficult to reverse. Also, it's not a technical term with a rigid definition, hence "soft-bricking"

Ao7bei3s 3y ago

Nothing is ever truly unrecoverable. If a device was built, it can be built again. What is bricked vs recoverable has always greatly depended on time and effort, individual skill level, available hardware/software tools, documentation, crypto keys, physical access, willingness to replace individual parts etc. Sometimes, even within an org, some teams e-waste expensive devices that aren't bricked deeper than what other teams recover from as part of everyday workflow. Taking a typical network device as an example, where do you draw the line? Driving to a remote location to plug the cable into another port, pressing a reset button, booting from USB, flashing a new firmware with TFTP, plugging in an external or internal console cable, opening the case and soldering a header to get access to the console, doing the same with no documentation, or an unknown (but maybe Google-able or reverse engineerable) password, flashing firmware with JTAG, shipping the device back to the engineers (or shipping an engineer to the device)...? It's always been arbitrary.

Atheros 3y ago
If you can't fix it or find someone who can, it is bricked. If you are able to fix it then it is not bricked. One device may be bricked to one person but not to another. But that must still be the definition, right? Otherwise the word has no meaning.
kfrzcode 3y ago
Hi, I have drilled my hard drives but need to recover them, can you help?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

millerm 3y ago

I got into an argument with a fellow Tesla owner on a forum who was screaming their car was bricked after their 12V battery died. All they had to do was replace the battery. It wasn't bricked. I sure received a lot of vitriol for saying it wasn't bricked. If you can simply perform a maintenance task, it's not bricked.

weinzierl 3y ago

I'd say "totally unrecoverable but physically intact". You wouldn't call a device bricked if it has the form of small pile of ashes. Then "totally unrecoverable" is rare and the term bricked has always been relative. Your bricked device may be as good as new to someone who has a JTAG adaper and knows how to use it.