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Very misguided and science denying. Psychotherapy is about the relationship. This point is of such importance, that in Germany (where psychotherapy is covered

Very misguided and science denying. Psychotherapy is about the relationship. This point is of such importance, that in Germany (where psychotherapy is covered by the mandatory health insurance) patients are allowed to have a couple of test sessions with several different therapists and then choose to continue with the one they feel best. Also - as already pointed out - there’s a multitude of schools or types of psychotherapy (CBT, Psychodynamic, etc.) with statistically significant benefits. Of course, some are more suited for some cases than others. The OP treats psychotherapy as a monolith. One way to look at it, is, that many people weren’t raised with competent-enough parenting (or mentoring) to acquire the skills to cope with some issues on their own - i.e.: the “just deal with it”. And this is the role of the therapist: not to become a parent, but to play the prosthetic role of a very competent parent, or mentor. So that the patient can increase self-awareness, self-reflection, and emotionally grow into being able to better deal with the situation at hand. However, perhaps the biggest takeaway message here is that we need to educate Society - as we educate kids to learn to recycle - on how to choose a good therapist, what good therapy feels like, the importance of accredited and evidence-based methods (so people don’t rely on astrology and other quacks for - and therefore avoid properly dealing with - their emotional health needs), as well as, what should NOT happen in therapy sessions. PS: And also educate about what is black & white thinking ;)

ecshafer 3y ago
If psychotherapy is not a myth, what is the exact mechanism that therapy fixes an issue? If it were science that answer would be readily apparent. I can say exactly how photosynthesis works using chemical structures at every step of the process. But I can’t look up in a book how precisely psychotherapy fixes depression. Psychology has a dearth of actual repeatable testable experiments, which is why it’s not a science. If so many people lack parenting that gives them the skills to tough it out and deal with it, that psychotherapy is necessary, why were so many people able to function prior to psychotherapy? Psychotherapy is only 100 years old, hell it’s only been socially acceptable for like 20 years. But people functioned just fine.
- testtestabcdef 3y ago
  >But I can’t look up in a book how precisely psychotherapy fixes depression. Well, you can for CBT. CBT goes by the assumption that a lot of depression comes from negative thoughts and it tries to change the way you think and therefore the way you feel. And CBT is the most scientifically backed up form of psychotherapy. So it looks like that works. Sure, we don't fully understand the brain yet, but we are making progress.
- stdbrouw 3y ago
  It took almost a century before we figured out how photo negatives worked chemically. Didn’t stop anyone from taking photographs though. Mechanistic explanations are great but not a requirement for good science.
  - virtualritz 3y ago
    > It took almost a century before we figured out how photo negatives worked chemically. Didn’t stop anyone from taking photographs though. That argument is a strawman as it works with anything that can't be falsiefied. People who believe in astrology/chakras/etc. will also frequently tell you science will "one day" discover that "it's true". "We're just not there yet." Also consider what someone may say in a hundered years: It took almost a century before we figured out that psychotherapy didn't work. Didn’t stop anyone from taking pshychotherapy though. ;)
    - stdbrouw 3y ago
      The point is that we can verify whether something works (with a randomized controlled trial) independently of knowing why it works, and psychotherapy interventions are commonly evaluated with RCTs.
    - DrNosferatu 3y ago
      Psychotherapy presents itself to experimental falsification [1] with epidemiologic studies, whereas astrology/chakras/etc., do not. (Obviously, Psychotherapy is not a magic-bullet. It is however a valuable health tool to have available, and society should be educated - also on recognizing good and BAD therapeutic practices! - on how to use it, and destigmatized.) [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-psychiatric-sciences/article/is-psychotherapy-effective-a-reanalysis-of-treatments-for-depression/5D8EC85B6FA35B5CEE124381F18E51B9 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-psy...
staticman2 3y ago
"Very misguided and science denying." Classifying a detailed article as either "science" or "science denial" is certainly black and white thinking. I also don't think it's true that the role of the therapist is to be a mentor. I've had mentors, therapists, and parents, and those roles don't overlap as much as you seem to think.
- retrocryptid 3y ago
  Yet sometimes things are black and white.
  - staticman2 3y ago
    "Yet sometimes things are black and white." Have you had this fact checked by a cognitive therapist? They are, apparently, the arbiters of reality.
    - klyrs 3y ago
      As a mathematician, I can assure you that some things are definitively black and white. The transferrability of mathematics to "real life" is questionable, of course. Axiomatic systems can only describe so much.
      - staticman2 3y ago
        You might be suffering from a cognitive distortion, my good mathematician, I suggest you check with a cognitive therapist. I'm kidding, of course, the joke being that whatever anyone says to me will result in a dismissal that only a cognitive therapist can know for sure what's real and what isn't, since they are the self declared experts on whether thoughts match reality.
        retrocryptid 3y ago
        Methinks thou doeth protest too much.

ecshafer 3y ago

If psychotherapy is not a myth, what is the exact mechanism that therapy fixes an issue? If it were science that answer would be readily apparent. I can say exactly how photosynthesis works using chemical structures at every step of the process. But I can’t look up in a book how precisely psychotherapy fixes depression. Psychology has a dearth of actual repeatable testable experiments, which is why it’s not a science. If so many people lack parenting that gives them the skills to tough it out and deal with it, that psychotherapy is necessary, why were so many people able to function prior to psychotherapy? Psychotherapy is only 100 years old, hell it’s only been socially acceptable for like 20 years. But people functioned just fine.

testtestabcdef 3y ago
>But I can’t look up in a book how precisely psychotherapy fixes depression. Well, you can for CBT. CBT goes by the assumption that a lot of depression comes from negative thoughts and it tries to change the way you think and therefore the way you feel. And CBT is the most scientifically backed up form of psychotherapy. So it looks like that works. Sure, we don't fully understand the brain yet, but we are making progress.
stdbrouw 3y ago
It took almost a century before we figured out how photo negatives worked chemically. Didn’t stop anyone from taking photographs though. Mechanistic explanations are great but not a requirement for good science.
- virtualritz 3y ago
  > It took almost a century before we figured out how photo negatives worked chemically. Didn’t stop anyone from taking photographs though. That argument is a strawman as it works with anything that can't be falsiefied. People who believe in astrology/chakras/etc. will also frequently tell you science will "one day" discover that "it's true". "We're just not there yet." Also consider what someone may say in a hundered years: It took almost a century before we figured out that psychotherapy didn't work. Didn’t stop anyone from taking pshychotherapy though. ;)
  - stdbrouw 3y ago
    The point is that we can verify whether something works (with a randomized controlled trial) independently of knowing why it works, and psychotherapy interventions are commonly evaluated with RCTs.
  - DrNosferatu 3y ago
    Psychotherapy presents itself to experimental falsification [1] with epidemiologic studies, whereas astrology/chakras/etc., do not. (Obviously, Psychotherapy is not a magic-bullet. It is however a valuable health tool to have available, and society should be educated - also on recognizing good and BAD therapeutic practices! - on how to use it, and destigmatized.) [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-psychiatric-sciences/article/is-psychotherapy-effective-a-reanalysis-of-treatments-for-depression/5D8EC85B6FA35B5CEE124381F18E51B9 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-psy...

staticman2 3y ago

"Very misguided and science denying." Classifying a detailed article as either "science" or "science denial" is certainly black and white thinking. I also don't think it's true that the role of the therapist is to be a mentor. I've had mentors, therapists, and parents, and those roles don't overlap as much as you seem to think.

retrocryptid 3y ago
Yet sometimes things are black and white.
- staticman2 3y ago
  "Yet sometimes things are black and white." Have you had this fact checked by a cognitive therapist? They are, apparently, the arbiters of reality.
  - klyrs 3y ago
    As a mathematician, I can assure you that some things are definitively black and white. The transferrability of mathematics to "real life" is questionable, of course. Axiomatic systems can only describe so much.
    - staticman2 3y ago
      You might be suffering from a cognitive distortion, my good mathematician, I suggest you check with a cognitive therapist. I'm kidding, of course, the joke being that whatever anyone says to me will result in a dismissal that only a cognitive therapist can know for sure what's real and what isn't, since they are the self declared experts on whether thoughts match reality.
      - retrocryptid 3y ago
        Methinks thou doeth protest too much.