4 ms·

The client is the “bot” , which you know and are intentionally being obtuse. And your links aren’t in any way suggesting the server logs messages, please try a

by Zetice 3y ago

The client is the “bot” , which you know and are intentionally being obtuse. And your links aren’t in any way suggesting the server logs messages, please try again. But none of this is relevant to the original point that you can 100% obtain equal or better outcomes using Discord in all cases for conversation persistence. Complaining about Discord as a replacement to IRC is ignorant and pointless.

Dylan16807 3y ago
I'm not being obtuse. The biggest problem with discord bots is that you need a completely different kind of account to have a bot, and even worse that account can't join servers normally. You're not allowed to run a logger on your own personal account. Because of that, IRC gives better results in many scenarios. Discord is not equal or better in all cases. If I don't set up a special arrangement with the moderators or break the ToS, all my channel messages are vulnerable to being deleted forever on a moment's notice. And if I get locked out of my account I lose all past private messages.
- Zetice 3y ago
  Just because you don’t know how to write a Discord bot doesn’t mean it’s meaningfully difficult due to it requiring a different account type, in fact that makes it easier in many respects. And in the case we’re discussing, you run the server and can freely allow whatever you want. Discord is superior or equal to IRC in every meaningful way here.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    > Just because you don’t know how to write a Discord bot doesn’t mean it’s meaningfully difficult due to it requiring a different account type, in fact that makes it easier in many respects. The difficult part isn't writing it. It's getting in a situation to use it. > And in the case we’re discussing, you run the server and can freely allow whatever you want. You seem confused. The very first complaint in the big post you responded to with "Literally all of your concerns are 100% solved by adding a log bot to the channels you care about" was this: "1 - The logs aren't yours, they're Discord's. If you get banned from the server, your server shuts down, or Discord bans you altogether your access to those logs is gone forever." It's not just about servers you're running. It's also any channel/message you join.
    - Zetice 3y ago
      Sorry but you've completely lost the plot here. We're talking about using Discord vs using IRC as a means of capturing company documentation, and in this task Discord is superior in every meaningful way. You could use a bot to push everything to a persistent, searchable location, and as a corporation this would be braindead easy. Obviously you wouldn't want to push private convos, so your continued reference to them isn't relevant at all, and your concerns about how "hard" it would be to add a bot to the server to do this is moot considering you control the server in question. Why would you be banned from the server? Why would you ban yourself? Why would Discord ban you? Why and how would Discord banning you remove your ability to write a bot that pushes your content out to a storage place you control? You keep trying to find a way to be right, but you keep stumbling.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        > Sorry but you've completely lost the plot here. We're talking about using Discord vs using IRC as a means of capturing company documentation, and in this task Discord is superior in every meaningful way. No, I just double checked all the way back to the start of this thread, that's not right. People made very general complaints, and you said bots solve all their problems. You also said that Discord matches or beats IRC in all situations. I agree that discord bots will solve that particular problem.
        Zetice 3y ago
        "All your problems" when in response to a specific list of problems means "all of the problems listed" not "literally every conceivable problem".
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        General logging was in the specific list of problems. Servers you're not in control of were an explicit part of point number 1. Bots can possibly solve the issue of "I need to get logs of arbitrary channels I'm in", but discord in particular makes it difficult in a way that IRC does not. Discord is in some ways much worse than IRC for logging. It's also better in some ways. But there are important differences in each direction. Discord could largely solve this with a ToS change. But until that happens, it's a problem.

by Zetice 3y ago

Dylan16807 3y ago

I'm not being obtuse. The biggest problem with discord bots is that you need a completely different kind of account to have a bot, and even worse that account can't join servers normally. You're not allowed to run a logger on your own personal account. Because of that, IRC gives better results in many scenarios. Discord is not equal or better in all cases. If I don't set up a special arrangement with the moderators or break the ToS, all my channel messages are vulnerable to being deleted forever on a moment's notice. And if I get locked out of my account I lose all past private messages.

Zetice 3y ago
Just because you don’t know how to write a Discord bot doesn’t mean it’s meaningfully difficult due to it requiring a different account type, in fact that makes it easier in many respects. And in the case we’re discussing, you run the server and can freely allow whatever you want. Discord is superior or equal to IRC in every meaningful way here.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  > Just because you don’t know how to write a Discord bot doesn’t mean it’s meaningfully difficult due to it requiring a different account type, in fact that makes it easier in many respects. The difficult part isn't writing it. It's getting in a situation to use it. > And in the case we’re discussing, you run the server and can freely allow whatever you want. You seem confused. The very first complaint in the big post you responded to with "Literally all of your concerns are 100% solved by adding a log bot to the channels you care about" was this: "1 - The logs aren't yours, they're Discord's. If you get banned from the server, your server shuts down, or Discord bans you altogether your access to those logs is gone forever." It's not just about servers you're running. It's also any channel/message you join.
  - Zetice 3y ago
    Sorry but you've completely lost the plot here. We're talking about using Discord vs using IRC as a means of capturing company documentation, and in this task Discord is superior in every meaningful way. You could use a bot to push everything to a persistent, searchable location, and as a corporation this would be braindead easy. Obviously you wouldn't want to push private convos, so your continued reference to them isn't relevant at all, and your concerns about how "hard" it would be to add a bot to the server to do this is moot considering you control the server in question. Why would you be banned from the server? Why would you ban yourself? Why would Discord ban you? Why and how would Discord banning you remove your ability to write a bot that pushes your content out to a storage place you control? You keep trying to find a way to be right, but you keep stumbling.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      > Sorry but you've completely lost the plot here. We're talking about using Discord vs using IRC as a means of capturing company documentation, and in this task Discord is superior in every meaningful way. No, I just double checked all the way back to the start of this thread, that's not right. People made very general complaints, and you said bots solve all their problems. You also said that Discord matches or beats IRC in all situations. I agree that discord bots will solve that particular problem.
      - Zetice 3y ago
        "All your problems" when in response to a specific list of problems means "all of the problems listed" not "literally every conceivable problem".
        Dylan16807 3y ago
        General logging was in the specific list of problems. Servers you're not in control of were an explicit part of point number 1. Bots can possibly solve the issue of "I need to get logs of arbitrary channels I'm in", but discord in particular makes it difficult in a way that IRC does not. Discord is in some ways much worse than IRC for logging. It's also better in some ways. But there are important differences in each direction. Discord could largely solve this with a ToS change. But until that happens, it's a problem.