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Understanding American Airport Security Following 9/11 (2019)

magicalhippo 3y ago
Some years ago I was flying home from a large European airport. Unbeknownst to me there had been a bomb threat, so the security check was turned up to 11. The queue for the security check was enormous, thousands of people packed in a snaking queue filling up the place. I've never been so scared flying as I stood in line looking at the doors to the parking lot, with nothing but people between.
- pjc50 3y ago
  It's important to remember that bombs are only ever dangerous on planes, and nobody would ever think of detonating a bomb in a packed security queue.
  - Panzer04 3y ago
    The kind of bombs an amateur can put together will probably do a lot less damage in an airport queue than on a 777. Seriously damage an airliner and like as not you can kill everyone on board, whereas the same bomb in even a busy public space will probably only kill a few dozen people at best (body blocking, etc). Strictly talking from the perspective of inflicting maximal harm - That need not be the goal of a would-be bomber.
    - dijit 3y ago
      I think the goal is instilling fear, and honestly, making you fear crowds would be a terribly effective strategy.
    - magicalhippo 3y ago
      Five to six large suitcases filled with explosives would likely do a lot of damage, and I saw several of them being wheeled by a single adult in or near the packed queue, as the queue spilled into the common areas. And while it might be less casualties in terms of bodies than a large plane, I think it would be more effective in terms of terror as there would be much more people directly affected. Imagine what it'd do to all those waiting in the check-in queues when they experience the explosion and the aftermath. That's why it scared me so much. It would have been such an effective move, requiring little skill and few actors. I've never been scared of such acts before or since.
  - GuB-42 3y ago
    Places that take terrorism threats seriously have multiple checkpoints spread out everywhere for that reason. Not only large queues are an ideal spot to bomb if the goal is to make a lot of victims, but not having a well defined location for security checks makes it more difficult for terrorists to plan around.
workfromspace 3y ago
https://archive.is/tYRVg https://archive.is/tYRVg
chrismcb 3y ago
Isn't it time to disband the TSA? So the security theater? "... no more intrusive or intensive than necessary..." I would say waiting on lines for hours, even being required to show up hours before is more intrusive than necessary.
ed_westin 3y ago
This website uses 400MB+ of disk space for cookies, site data and cache for a single visit.
- workfromspace 3y ago
  It doesn't even load the page for me. Here's cached version: https://archive.is/tYRVg https://archive.is/tYRVg
- callalex 3y ago
  My visit on the lates Mobile Safari reports 2.7MB of storage usage, for what it’s worth. Although I have very strict content blocking policies. Edit: 3.4MB when I remove the filters
voakbasda 3y ago
I stopped flying in 2003 as a direct result of the TSA. I used to fly everywhere with a mandolin, as it would fit into the overhead compartments and allowed me to participate in the music scene at my destination. After the security theater was in full swing, I got stopped at a security checkpoint and was told that I could not take my spare set of strings onto the plane, because they might be used as a garrote. Knowing that I hadn’t changed them for a while, I asked whether it would be okay for me to sit there and change them. They agreed. So I took 15 minutes and put the new strings on my mandolin. That appeased them, and I continued on my long journey home. So, the strings were still allowed through… on my instrument. Where I could have removed them and fashioned a garrote just as easily as when they were new in the bag. The terrorists won. I never flew again.
- Clamchop 3y ago
  The kind of stand I and many others I'm sure would like to take but I, like most people I imagine, fly to do important things in the limited time I have, for which air travel is one hell of a luxury that makes it possible at all. Family, friends, personally significant trips. I don't fly for business but I figure that's a very important reason for many. They have most of us bent over a barrel. No free market to be seen here. Unless you count fuckhead rent seekers like Clear exploiting that the line to queue for security is technically in the airport's purview. Clear and the airports that participate are offensive.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    >I, like most people I imagine, fly to do important things in the limited time I have, for which air travel is one hell of a luxury that makes it possible at all. Family, friends, personally significant trips. If I didn't fly, I'd have to take a ship to visit my family, and that would probably take weeks and cost a fortune. I guess if you never leave the US, this kind of stand makes sense, but when you live on different continents it's not practical at all.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  The difference was not the location of the strings. To the TSA, the difference was your expertise in being able to change them on the spot. You proved that you are a mandolin player, and not merely an assassin who is carrying one as a cover story (but you could be both.) It's for this reason, supposedly, that we're asked to boot our laptops and so forth. Do we have a mundane or nefarious purpose?

Some years ago I was flying home from a large European airport. Unbeknownst to me there had been a bomb threat, so the security check was turned up to 11. The queue for the security check was enormous, thousands of people packed in a snaking queue filling up the place. I've never been so scared flying as I stood in line looking at the doors to the parking lot, with nothing but people between.

pjc50 3y ago
It's important to remember that bombs are only ever dangerous on planes, and nobody would ever think of detonating a bomb in a packed security queue.
- Panzer04 3y ago
  The kind of bombs an amateur can put together will probably do a lot less damage in an airport queue than on a 777. Seriously damage an airliner and like as not you can kill everyone on board, whereas the same bomb in even a busy public space will probably only kill a few dozen people at best (body blocking, etc). Strictly talking from the perspective of inflicting maximal harm - That need not be the goal of a would-be bomber.
  - dijit 3y ago
    I think the goal is instilling fear, and honestly, making you fear crowds would be a terribly effective strategy.
  - magicalhippo 3y ago
    Five to six large suitcases filled with explosives would likely do a lot of damage, and I saw several of them being wheeled by a single adult in or near the packed queue, as the queue spilled into the common areas. And while it might be less casualties in terms of bodies than a large plane, I think it would be more effective in terms of terror as there would be much more people directly affected. Imagine what it'd do to all those waiting in the check-in queues when they experience the explosion and the aftermath. That's why it scared me so much. It would have been such an effective move, requiring little skill and few actors. I've never been scared of such acts before or since.
- GuB-42 3y ago
  Places that take terrorism threats seriously have multiple checkpoints spread out everywhere for that reason. Not only large queues are an ideal spot to bomb if the goal is to make a lot of victims, but not having a well defined location for security checks makes it more difficult for terrorists to plan around.

workfromspace 3y ago

https://archive.is/tYRVg https://archive.is/tYRVg

chrismcb 3y ago

Isn't it time to disband the TSA? So the security theater? "... no more intrusive or intensive than necessary..." I would say waiting on lines for hours, even being required to show up hours before is more intrusive than necessary.

ed_westin 3y ago

This website uses 400MB+ of disk space for cookies, site data and cache for a single visit.

workfromspace 3y ago
It doesn't even load the page for me. Here's cached version: https://archive.is/tYRVg https://archive.is/tYRVg
callalex 3y ago
My visit on the lates Mobile Safari reports 2.7MB of storage usage, for what it’s worth. Although I have very strict content blocking policies. Edit: 3.4MB when I remove the filters

voakbasda 3y ago

I stopped flying in 2003 as a direct result of the TSA. I used to fly everywhere with a mandolin, as it would fit into the overhead compartments and allowed me to participate in the music scene at my destination. After the security theater was in full swing, I got stopped at a security checkpoint and was told that I could not take my spare set of strings onto the plane, because they might be used as a garrote. Knowing that I hadn’t changed them for a while, I asked whether it would be okay for me to sit there and change them. They agreed. So I took 15 minutes and put the new strings on my mandolin. That appeased them, and I continued on my long journey home. So, the strings were still allowed through… on my instrument. Where I could have removed them and fashioned a garrote just as easily as when they were new in the bag. The terrorists won. I never flew again.

Clamchop 3y ago
The kind of stand I and many others I'm sure would like to take but I, like most people I imagine, fly to do important things in the limited time I have, for which air travel is one hell of a luxury that makes it possible at all. Family, friends, personally significant trips. I don't fly for business but I figure that's a very important reason for many. They have most of us bent over a barrel. No free market to be seen here. Unless you count fuckhead rent seekers like Clear exploiting that the line to queue for security is technically in the airport's purview. Clear and the airports that participate are offensive.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  >I, like most people I imagine, fly to do important things in the limited time I have, for which air travel is one hell of a luxury that makes it possible at all. Family, friends, personally significant trips. If I didn't fly, I'd have to take a ship to visit my family, and that would probably take weeks and cost a fortune. I guess if you never leave the US, this kind of stand makes sense, but when you live on different continents it's not practical at all.
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
The difference was not the location of the strings. To the TSA, the difference was your expertise in being able to change them on the spot. You proved that you are a mandolin player, and not merely an assassin who is carrying one as a cover story (but you could be both.) It's for this reason, supposedly, that we're asked to boot our laptops and so forth. Do we have a mundane or nefarious purpose?