5 ms·

The power of weeds to end hunger in an uncertain climate

73 points by dnetesn 3y ago

samstave 3y ago
"weeds" is such a misnomer in many instances, such as milkweed and dandelions and clover being very important. Whatever that weed is with the little spikey-ball-nodes that get into your pets hair, or in your laces and socks - that weed sucks - but nature has a balance between insects and "weeds" that we shouldnt be decimating with glyphosate... Monsanto is more a threat than climate change. Because killing the shade, plants, ecosystem etc will make it compoundedly harder for the general ecosystem (which means food pollination) will be more heavily affected by greater average temps.
- Gordonjcp 3y ago
  > Whatever that weed is with the little spikey-ball-nodes that get into your pets hair, or in your laces and socks In Scotland it's called "Sticky Willie" which is nowhere near as rude as it sounds. Its primary function in the ecosystem is providing long thin sticky plants for children or childlike adults to stick to each other's clothing without the victim noticing, and seeing how long it takes them to figure it out.
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    I found your comment amusing, which is why I vouched for it. Otherwise all your other recent comments seem to be dead for whatever reason, meaning only people like me who have showdead=1 can see them. Just to let you know.
    - btilly 3y ago
      I went through and vouched for the other comments. There is no way that they should be automatically dead.
      - mschuster91 3y ago
        I emailed dang, the account was shadowbanned for flamebait, and he manually unkilled a lot of their comments.
        Gordonjcp 3y ago
        [dead]
  - VBprogrammer 3y ago
    I think those and the little burrs are different species. Galium aparine Vs Arctium minus.
    - Gordonjcp 3y ago
      Oh you mean like the cockleburrs you get on things? Maybe more about the size of a small grape, outside diameter? It's weird, I've only ever noticed those on the west coast.
      - HankB99 3y ago
        Cockleburrs? They seem to grow well in the US Midwest (at least about 40 miles west of Chicago.) We also get stick-tights which are much smaller. As for my "lawn", I mow whatever grows at the highest height I can set my mower. No fertilizer, no toxins. Whatever grows is appreciated. Except thistles, cockleburrs and stick-tights. I have a variety of grasses, American violets, clover, ajuga and lots of other stuff. I also pull portulaca and add it to my salads.
- euroderf 3y ago
  > little spikey-ball-nodes Those are burrs. (also: burweed, burrweed ?)
imchillyb 3y ago
Weed = Undesirable plant, or a desirable plant in an undesirable location. There is no definitive definition for weed due to the term being location specific.
jmclnx 3y ago
I would love to replace my lawn with all dandelions, but everyone says no. I read somewhere, dandelions where popular for lawns a century or to ago. Forgot where I saw that.
- InvaderFizz 3y ago
  Probably as a result of where I grew up (rural southeastern US, 20 miles from the closest population center over 1k people). But I have never considered dandelions to be weeds. Just another interesting plant in the multitude of grasses that made up our 3 acre front yard. Clover, dandelions, crabgrass, dallisgrass, etc were just part of our yard. We also used it often as grazing for the horses as an alternative to spending hours mowing every few weeks. So any attempt as species control would have been undone by the horse manure anyways.
  - devb 3y ago
    Dandelions are considered weeds in a botanical sense because they are non-native invasive plants in the United States. Same with clovers, crabgrasses, dallisgrass, and many other common lawn plants.
    - anon84873628 3y ago
      That's only true for certain species in the Taraxacum genus. There are many Taraxacum and other chicories native to North America which most people would still call "dandelion".
      - devb 3y ago
        Many species, but by actual counts the non-natives are vastly over-represented. https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=1&subview=table&taxon_id=447425&view=species https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=1&subview=...
    - CBarkleyU 3y ago
      I mean, isn't lawn grass non-native as well?
hahamrfunnyguy 3y ago
There are lots of amateur and professional breeders working on improving traditional and non-traditional crops. Some of the what's being improved are considered weeds. My interest is in perennial crops, and there's lots of interesting work happening in this area! The Experimental Farm Network is a great place to find out about projects and order seeds: https://www.experimentalfarmnetwork.org/ https://www.experimentalfarmnetwork.org/. The Kaleidoscope Kale grex is a great one to start with. They look nice in beds with flowers and other ornamental plants too.
gumby 3y ago
Climate change is going to cause people in wealthy countries to rediscover all sorts of foods they would previously have spurned. I find it interesting that the "famine culture" (eat "everything but the squeak") has survived in chinese cuisine despite the rise in wealth -- perhaps due to the rapidity of the rise. In any case, the available choices will be different, and probably fewer.
- fragmede 3y ago
  It's all about framing. Lobster was previously a poor person's dish, suitable only for prisoners, slaves, and servants. Servants even made moves to limit the amount of lobster they could be fed. And then it became a luxury food. Kale also became popular thanks to marketing.
happytiger 3y ago
It’s fascinating to consider how much of food isn’t part of our diet simply because it doesn’t lend itself to large scale monoculture or has a higher production cost than alternatives. After all, weeds are only unwanted plants, and ultimately, crops are simply wanted weeds, as they discuss. The larger point is to bring an agricultural system that is sustainable in the long term (very long term), through the inevitable climate shifts that we know occur reliably and whatever the impact of human "enhancements" turn out to be — and which is looking pretty dramatic these days. Coming back into balance with nature is critical, and learning to view ourselves not as separate from the earth but part of the big life support system ultimately leads towards a positively focused, sustainable future. The authors point about this is really worth considering: > Consequently, most breeders are only evaluating a small percentage of the available germplasm for things like disease resistance or cooking characteristics—not for environmental resilience. I wonder whether LLMs will assist in this work? It won’t be a commercial opportunity for some time, but it’s critical that we start getting good at cataloging what we have and could create to make the balance work in a pragmatic way.
- madaxe_again 3y ago
  While the article is about weeds as a genetic library, there’s something to be said for just looking at weeds as potential crops in general. I’ve lived in the woods three years now, and while I always knew that a lot of wild plants were edible, I had never really appreciated just how many, and how many flavours there are out there that we generally never try. I will often walk from a to b nibbling on various bits and pieces as I go - and yes, I know how to ID, and how to check toxicity so I don’t poison myself. I’ve also dabbled with bug-eating. Earwigs are a particular favourite - they’re sour and spicy, and dried and ground make an incredible curry paste. Anyway. Turns out we can eat a lot of stuff just fine.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - fsckboy 3y ago
    > Earwigs are a particular favourite - they’re sour and spicy, and dried and ground with just a pincer of salt!
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Max-q 3y ago
My friend told me I had weeds in my flower bed and started pulling them up. He was probably right but I had let them stay because they were nicer than the flowers supposed to be there.
- fsckboy 3y ago
  maybe the presence of the weeds was stilting the fragile flowers?
fbdab103 3y ago
Outside of any concerns about the dangers of relying upon a monocrop, what is the most efficient available mechanism capable of feeding humanity using ~today's technology? Soylent green and other options on the table. Science fiction would lead me to believe we could all be fed from vats of yeast. Potatoes feel really efficient (and according to the Martian, nutritionally complete), but would be happy to hear others. As per the article, the answer is probably in weeds, something like kudzu. Some kind of insect recycling system for protein variety from edible waste also seems appropriate.
- watwut 3y ago
  Insects and worms
  - doublepg23 3y ago
    I had just heard about that conspiracy theory on NPR. https://www.npr.org/2023/07/18/1188237695/this-right-wing-conspiracy-theory-about-eating-bugs-is-about-as-racist-as-you-th https://www.npr.org/2023/07/18/1188237695/this-right-wing-co...
    - Vecr 3y ago
      Feed the bugs to the chickens instead.
- anon84873628 3y ago
  Perennial polyculture food forests built from as many species native to the local environment as possible. Processed and preserved nearby using renewable off grid energy sources including cellulosic ethanol produced from organic waste products. Edit: You can't separate the "concerns about monoculture" from "efficiency" (whether that means outside energy inputs or calorie production or whatever). Every plant/animal species has its own specific advantages, nutrient needs, seasonal cycles, etc. If you use a monoculture then you are necessarily missing out on capturing some advantages (e.g. sunligh) and creating a dependence on outside inputs. Polycultures create a holistic ecosystem that can optimally partition the available sunlight, soil, and water; create mutually beneficial feedback loops, and foster the diverse microbial & pollinator populations necessary to sustain plant life.
barathr 3y ago
I'd encourage folks to think beyond just annuals and diversify into perennials (especially tree crops -- fruits and nuts). In almost every place in the world, except the arctic or highlands, one can grow dozens or even hundreds of species of tree crops. Check out a few resources: https://crfg.org/homepage/library/fruitfacts/ https://crfg.org/homepage/library/fruitfacts/ https://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/index.html https://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/index.html https://oikostreecrops.com/ https://oikostreecrops.com/
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
DyslexicAtheist 3y ago
James[1] C Scott's needs to to do another take on his classics "The Art of Not Being Governed"[2], and "Against the Grain"[3] but for those of us who wanna face the Anthropocene with a full belly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_C._Scott https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_C._Scott [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Not_Being_Governed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Not_Being_Governed [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_the_Grain:_A_Deep_History_of_the_Earliest_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_the_Grain:_A_Deep_Hist...
- maxbond 3y ago
  The thesis of [2] is covered in this episode of Crash Course World History, for those who are interested. (14m) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyzi9GNZFMU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyzi9GNZFMU
teslashill 3y ago
[dead]

73 points by dnetesn 3y ago

"weeds" is such a misnomer in many instances, such as milkweed and dandelions and clover being very important. Whatever that weed is with the little spikey-ball-nodes that get into your pets hair, or in your laces and socks - that weed sucks - but nature has a balance between insects and "weeds" that we shouldnt be decimating with glyphosate... Monsanto is more a threat than climate change. Because killing the shade, plants, ecosystem etc will make it compoundedly harder for the general ecosystem (which means food pollination) will be more heavily affected by greater average temps.

Gordonjcp 3y ago
> Whatever that weed is with the little spikey-ball-nodes that get into your pets hair, or in your laces and socks In Scotland it's called "Sticky Willie" which is nowhere near as rude as it sounds. Its primary function in the ecosystem is providing long thin sticky plants for children or childlike adults to stick to each other's clothing without the victim noticing, and seeing how long it takes them to figure it out.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  I found your comment amusing, which is why I vouched for it. Otherwise all your other recent comments seem to be dead for whatever reason, meaning only people like me who have showdead=1 can see them. Just to let you know.
  - btilly 3y ago
    I went through and vouched for the other comments. There is no way that they should be automatically dead.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      I emailed dang, the account was shadowbanned for flamebait, and he manually unkilled a lot of their comments.
      - Gordonjcp 3y ago
        [dead]
- VBprogrammer 3y ago
  I think those and the little burrs are different species. Galium aparine Vs Arctium minus.
  - Gordonjcp 3y ago
    Oh you mean like the cockleburrs you get on things? Maybe more about the size of a small grape, outside diameter? It's weird, I've only ever noticed those on the west coast.
    - HankB99 3y ago
      Cockleburrs? They seem to grow well in the US Midwest (at least about 40 miles west of Chicago.) We also get stick-tights which are much smaller. As for my "lawn", I mow whatever grows at the highest height I can set my mower. No fertilizer, no toxins. Whatever grows is appreciated. Except thistles, cockleburrs and stick-tights. I have a variety of grasses, American violets, clover, ajuga and lots of other stuff. I also pull portulaca and add it to my salads.
euroderf 3y ago
> little spikey-ball-nodes Those are burrs. (also: burweed, burrweed ?)

imchillyb 3y ago

Weed = Undesirable plant, or a desirable plant in an undesirable location. There is no definitive definition for weed due to the term being location specific.

jmclnx 3y ago

I would love to replace my lawn with all dandelions, but everyone says no. I read somewhere, dandelions where popular for lawns a century or to ago. Forgot where I saw that.

InvaderFizz 3y ago
Probably as a result of where I grew up (rural southeastern US, 20 miles from the closest population center over 1k people). But I have never considered dandelions to be weeds. Just another interesting plant in the multitude of grasses that made up our 3 acre front yard. Clover, dandelions, crabgrass, dallisgrass, etc were just part of our yard. We also used it often as grazing for the horses as an alternative to spending hours mowing every few weeks. So any attempt as species control would have been undone by the horse manure anyways.
- devb 3y ago
  Dandelions are considered weeds in a botanical sense because they are non-native invasive plants in the United States. Same with clovers, crabgrasses, dallisgrass, and many other common lawn plants.
  - anon84873628 3y ago
    That's only true for certain species in the Taraxacum genus. There are many Taraxacum and other chicories native to North America which most people would still call "dandelion".
    - devb 3y ago
      Many species, but by actual counts the non-natives are vastly over-represented. https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=1&subview=table&taxon_id=447425&view=species https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=1&subview=...
  - CBarkleyU 3y ago
    I mean, isn't lawn grass non-native as well?

hahamrfunnyguy 3y ago

There are lots of amateur and professional breeders working on improving traditional and non-traditional crops. Some of the what's being improved are considered weeds. My interest is in perennial crops, and there's lots of interesting work happening in this area! The Experimental Farm Network is a great place to find out about projects and order seeds: https://www.experimentalfarmnetwork.org/ https://www.experimentalfarmnetwork.org/. The Kaleidoscope Kale grex is a great one to start with. They look nice in beds with flowers and other ornamental plants too.

gumby 3y ago

Climate change is going to cause people in wealthy countries to rediscover all sorts of foods they would previously have spurned. I find it interesting that the "famine culture" (eat "everything but the squeak") has survived in chinese cuisine despite the rise in wealth -- perhaps due to the rapidity of the rise. In any case, the available choices will be different, and probably fewer.

fragmede 3y ago
It's all about framing. Lobster was previously a poor person's dish, suitable only for prisoners, slaves, and servants. Servants even made moves to limit the amount of lobster they could be fed. And then it became a luxury food. Kale also became popular thanks to marketing.

happytiger 3y ago

It’s fascinating to consider how much of food isn’t part of our diet simply because it doesn’t lend itself to large scale monoculture or has a higher production cost than alternatives. After all, weeds are only unwanted plants, and ultimately, crops are simply wanted weeds, as they discuss. The larger point is to bring an agricultural system that is sustainable in the long term (very long term), through the inevitable climate shifts that we know occur reliably and whatever the impact of human "enhancements" turn out to be — and which is looking pretty dramatic these days. Coming back into balance with nature is critical, and learning to view ourselves not as separate from the earth but part of the big life support system ultimately leads towards a positively focused, sustainable future. The authors point about this is really worth considering: > Consequently, most breeders are only evaluating a small percentage of the available germplasm for things like disease resistance or cooking characteristics—not for environmental resilience. I wonder whether LLMs will assist in this work? It won’t be a commercial opportunity for some time, but it’s critical that we start getting good at cataloging what we have and could create to make the balance work in a pragmatic way.

madaxe_again 3y ago
While the article is about weeds as a genetic library, there’s something to be said for just looking at weeds as potential crops in general. I’ve lived in the woods three years now, and while I always knew that a lot of wild plants were edible, I had never really appreciated just how many, and how many flavours there are out there that we generally never try. I will often walk from a to b nibbling on various bits and pieces as I go - and yes, I know how to ID, and how to check toxicity so I don’t poison myself. I’ve also dabbled with bug-eating. Earwigs are a particular favourite - they’re sour and spicy, and dried and ground make an incredible curry paste. Anyway. Turns out we can eat a lot of stuff just fine.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- fsckboy 3y ago
  > Earwigs are a particular favourite - they’re sour and spicy, and dried and ground with just a pincer of salt!

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Max-q 3y ago

My friend told me I had weeds in my flower bed and started pulling them up. He was probably right but I had let them stay because they were nicer than the flowers supposed to be there.

fsckboy 3y ago
maybe the presence of the weeds was stilting the fragile flowers?

fbdab103 3y ago

Outside of any concerns about the dangers of relying upon a monocrop, what is the most efficient available mechanism capable of feeding humanity using ~today's technology? Soylent green and other options on the table. Science fiction would lead me to believe we could all be fed from vats of yeast. Potatoes feel really efficient (and according to the Martian, nutritionally complete), but would be happy to hear others. As per the article, the answer is probably in weeds, something like kudzu. Some kind of insect recycling system for protein variety from edible waste also seems appropriate.

watwut 3y ago
Insects and worms
- doublepg23 3y ago
  I had just heard about that conspiracy theory on NPR. https://www.npr.org/2023/07/18/1188237695/this-right-wing-conspiracy-theory-about-eating-bugs-is-about-as-racist-as-you-th https://www.npr.org/2023/07/18/1188237695/this-right-wing-co...
  - Vecr 3y ago
    Feed the bugs to the chickens instead.
anon84873628 3y ago
Perennial polyculture food forests built from as many species native to the local environment as possible. Processed and preserved nearby using renewable off grid energy sources including cellulosic ethanol produced from organic waste products. Edit: You can't separate the "concerns about monoculture" from "efficiency" (whether that means outside energy inputs or calorie production or whatever). Every plant/animal species has its own specific advantages, nutrient needs, seasonal cycles, etc. If you use a monoculture then you are necessarily missing out on capturing some advantages (e.g. sunligh) and creating a dependence on outside inputs. Polycultures create a holistic ecosystem that can optimally partition the available sunlight, soil, and water; create mutually beneficial feedback loops, and foster the diverse microbial & pollinator populations necessary to sustain plant life.

barathr 3y ago

I'd encourage folks to think beyond just annuals and diversify into perennials (especially tree crops -- fruits and nuts). In almost every place in the world, except the arctic or highlands, one can grow dozens or even hundreds of species of tree crops. Check out a few resources: https://crfg.org/homepage/library/fruitfacts/ https://crfg.org/homepage/library/fruitfacts/ https://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/index.html https://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/index.html https://oikostreecrops.com/ https://oikostreecrops.com/

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

DyslexicAtheist 3y ago

James[1] C Scott's needs to to do another take on his classics "The Art of Not Being Governed"[2], and "Against the Grain"[3] but for those of us who wanna face the Anthropocene with a full belly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_C._Scott https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_C._Scott [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Not_Being_Governed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Not_Being_Governed [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_the_Grain:_A_Deep_History_of_the_Earliest_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_the_Grain:_A_Deep_Hist...

maxbond 3y ago
The thesis of [2] is covered in this episode of Crash Course World History, for those who are interested. (14m) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyzi9GNZFMU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyzi9GNZFMU

teslashill 3y ago

[dead]