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As an engineer, I would like to see improvements in efficiency: > Americans have deluded themselves into believing that as long as they allocate dollars to som

by Tempest1981 3y ago

As an engineer, I would like to see improvements in efficiency: > Americans have deluded themselves into believing that as long as they allocate dollars to something in a spreadsheet, then valuable and useful real stuff is actually getting built. Again and again, that delusion has been shattered when excess costs and interminable delays block the paper dollars from becoming real tangible goods. From construction of transportation to housing to energy infrastructure, things seem to take forever to build. California's high speed rail may never be completed.

LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
It doesn’t help that there’s a historic shortage of construction labor[0]. Efforts to improve throughput are meaningless if the most important resource, labor, cannot be procured. https://www.npr.org/2023/04/06/1158576556/where-did-the-workers-go-construction-jobs-are-plentiful-but-workers-are-scarce https://www.npr.org/2023/04/06/1158576556/where-did-the-work...
- linuxftw 3y ago
  I will go work construction tomorrow if the pay is right. I like being outside. Of course, there's never a labor shortage, only a wage shortage.
  - jewayne 3y ago
    Exactly. You know Bill Burr's joke about how every racist conversation begins with "I'm not racist, but..."? I feel like these "labor shortage" statements should preface themselves with "I don't believe in forced labor, but..." There's no acknowledgement of the rights and agency of the workers themselves.
  - DANmode 3y ago
    Regularly labor shortages, depending on where you are. Depending on what you do, probably also want to aim for a slot or two higher than "just walked onto the team laborer".
    - fragmede 3y ago
      Not if it pays enough. If I could make $1mm/year holding up a slow/stop sign, I'd just walk on to that team.
    - jewayne 3y ago
      > I don't believe in forced labor, but there's regularly labor shortages, depending on where you are. FTFY
      - DANmode 3y ago
        Anyway, carrying on with the discussion, there's plenty of those positions that pay better than average, or even way better than average, but the skilled people just aren't in the area yet. Obviously you can pay a million dollars an hour to get people to come from anywhere. My point is: pay is only one of many market forces impacting this specific industry. Markets are inefficient. Sometimes, it's just not knowing how to do hiring! How to properly advertise roles, without leaving out signals that make or break employees calling you.
jewayne 3y ago
> California's high speed rail may never be completed. It will be, but only because it's not really optional in the long term. It's super-expensive, but the alternatives are even more expensive in the very long term.
- Mountain_Skies 3y ago
  Zoom is much less expensive. Though not a replacement for all use cases, the best 'bang for the buck' for transportation infrastructure comes from demand destruction. Of course, there are many ways to destroy demand, some with unacceptable side effects, but more emphasis on structuring business in ways that can lessen the demand for business travel is going to be much more valuable with less cost than building more ways of moving ugly bags of mostly water long distances.
  - jewayne 3y ago
    I love the bizarre class biases you get on forums like these. I hate to break it to you, but the majority of jobs still require physical presence -- over 70%, in fact. And business travel is already way down -- it now represents only 12% of US air travel. And people still move far from family for various reasons. Are they supposed to maintain all of their relationships via Zoom? Sorry, the solution is not going to be "everybody stay home".
    - nradov 3y ago
      So what? No one is going to commute to work on the California HSR routes. Much of the original business case was based on business travel. Now it seems the passenger demand may be lower than expected.
- nradov 3y ago
  I doubt it. The alternative to high speed rail is adding more lanes to I-5, and perhaps expanding capacity at some of the major airports. Those upgrades would be cheaper than HSR.

LapsangGuzzler 3y ago

It doesn’t help that there’s a historic shortage of construction labor[0]. Efforts to improve throughput are meaningless if the most important resource, labor, cannot be procured. https://www.npr.org/2023/04/06/1158576556/where-did-the-workers-go-construction-jobs-are-plentiful-but-workers-are-scarce https://www.npr.org/2023/04/06/1158576556/where-did-the-work...

linuxftw 3y ago
I will go work construction tomorrow if the pay is right. I like being outside. Of course, there's never a labor shortage, only a wage shortage.
- jewayne 3y ago
  Exactly. You know Bill Burr's joke about how every racist conversation begins with "I'm not racist, but..."? I feel like these "labor shortage" statements should preface themselves with "I don't believe in forced labor, but..." There's no acknowledgement of the rights and agency of the workers themselves.
- DANmode 3y ago
  Regularly labor shortages, depending on where you are. Depending on what you do, probably also want to aim for a slot or two higher than "just walked onto the team laborer".
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Not if it pays enough. If I could make $1mm/year holding up a slow/stop sign, I'd just walk on to that team.
  - jewayne 3y ago
    > I don't believe in forced labor, but there's regularly labor shortages, depending on where you are. FTFY
    - DANmode 3y ago
      Anyway, carrying on with the discussion, there's plenty of those positions that pay better than average, or even way better than average, but the skilled people just aren't in the area yet. Obviously you can pay a million dollars an hour to get people to come from anywhere. My point is: pay is only one of many market forces impacting this specific industry. Markets are inefficient. Sometimes, it's just not knowing how to do hiring! How to properly advertise roles, without leaving out signals that make or break employees calling you.

jewayne 3y ago

> California's high speed rail may never be completed. It will be, but only because it's not really optional in the long term. It's super-expensive, but the alternatives are even more expensive in the very long term.

Mountain_Skies 3y ago
Zoom is much less expensive. Though not a replacement for all use cases, the best 'bang for the buck' for transportation infrastructure comes from demand destruction. Of course, there are many ways to destroy demand, some with unacceptable side effects, but more emphasis on structuring business in ways that can lessen the demand for business travel is going to be much more valuable with less cost than building more ways of moving ugly bags of mostly water long distances.
- jewayne 3y ago
  I love the bizarre class biases you get on forums like these. I hate to break it to you, but the majority of jobs still require physical presence -- over 70%, in fact. And business travel is already way down -- it now represents only 12% of US air travel. And people still move far from family for various reasons. Are they supposed to maintain all of their relationships via Zoom? Sorry, the solution is not going to be "everybody stay home".
  - nradov 3y ago
    So what? No one is going to commute to work on the California HSR routes. Much of the original business case was based on business travel. Now it seems the passenger demand may be lower than expected.
nradov 3y ago
I doubt it. The alternative to high speed rail is adding more lanes to I-5, and perhaps expanding capacity at some of the major airports. Those upgrades would be cheaper than HSR.