6 ms·

I really want to know, why don't we all supplement with L-arginine long term? Time-release capsules are available and I have taken for numerous issues like RSI

I really want to know, why don't we all supplement with L-arginine long term? Time-release capsules are available and I have taken for numerous issues like RSI to great success. Whats the downside to long term usage?

salad-tycoon 3y ago
Side bar : L citrulline is thought to be more effective than arginine. One downside that I don’t see discussed much, as I’ve watched multiple recalls over recent years for supposed contamination of things like tmao and other toxins in either the manufacturing process or packaging process, I wonder how many supplements are contaminated. I have never seen an analysis even from the vendors who do pretty hefty chemical composition analysis.
- esperent 3y ago
  > I wonder how many supplements are contaminated. I have never seen an analysis even from the vendors who do pretty hefty chemical composition analysis. Why do you think food supplements would be more contaminated than other processed foods? Or even things like toothpaste or shampoo, those are also made from highly processes ingredients.
  - fao_ 3y ago
    There's a large amount of precedence, that's why. Rather than asking the room, one would think the first step would be to obtain information and inform yourself. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5753965/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5753965/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34022259/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34022259/ https://theconversation.com/natural-supplements-can-be-dangerously-contaminated-or-not-even-have-the-specified-ingredients-131021 https://theconversation.com/natural-supplements-can-be-dange...
    - esperent 3y ago
      Why so defensive? I'm asking the room because it's a smart room, usually, and often there's someone who'll be far better informed than I could be with a quick search. That's literally why I spend time here. Regarding your links, I'm sure I could find similar studies about nearly any kind of food. I have a friend who won't eat peanuts because he's afraid of aflotoxins, which are real, genuinely dangerous, and if you think that peanut products are tested well enough to 100% guarantee the aflotoxins are always below safe levels in all peanut products you'll ever eat... Well, I'll disagree. https://inspection.canada.ca/food-safety-for-industry/food-chemistry-and-microbiology/food-safety-testing-reports-and-journal-articles/aflatoxins/eng/1557171015830/1557171066945 https://inspection.canada.ca/food-safety-for-industry/food-c... So again, why do you think supplements are worse than other food products? I don't agree that your links answer this question. They do show that there's often contaminants in supplements. They _don't_ show that supplements are unusual in this regard when compared to other food products. Your third link focuses on heavy metals in supplements. Here's a similar study showing they are also in baby food: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/heavy-metals-in-baby-food-what-parents-should-know-and-do-2021030522088 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/heavy-metals-in-baby-foo... So is it just supplements and baby food? Unlikely. More likely it's that supplements and baby food are both things that make people worry about contamination, so they test them more. Meanwhile your ketchup might be loaded with all kinds of contaminants but you'd never think of testing it.
      - fao_ 3y ago
        "These things are also contaminated" is shoddy argumentative reasoning at best, it is not the "got ya" that you think it is . I never claimed that there aren't contaminants in food, and I don't see how it defeats my claim that dietary supplements are unsafe -- the FDA is more stringent in regulation and testing with respect to food, as opposed to dietary supplements, because, you know, we need to eat to survive. Please take a second to read my comment here, before responding: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36930128 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36930128
fao_ 3y ago
One would think the first step would be to look it up. > Most healthy people do not need to supplement with arginine because it is a component of all protein-containing foods[15] and can be synthesized in the body from glutamine via citrulline. I do not understand how someone can wish to know something, but refuse to expend effort to obtain the information they wish to seek? I hope it would be ok for you to explain this behaviour, please?
- chownie 3y ago
  This seems unfairly aggressive. GP asked what the downside is to preventatively taking l-arganine as a supplement, your quote addresses only whether it's required. In short, you can't test your own blood so you don't know when your levels may be low. If there were no downsides to constantly supplementing then what reasons may there be to not do this? That is I think the actual question.
  - xwowsersx 3y ago
    It is unfairly aggressive and they did this twice just in this thread. The other was here: > There's a large amount of precedence, that's why. Rather than asking the room, one would think the first step would be to obtain information and inform yourself. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36930036 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36930036 I don't know why this person feels the need to roam around the conversation policing how people are engaging in it. It's incredibly obnoxious. Especially frustrating given that they do seem to have some information to share, which they could do and just omit the completely gratuitous and unwarranted hostility.
    - fao_ 3y ago
      I clearly made a point of inquiring why the behaviour was performed, it was an honest inquiry, I am genuinely curious. For what it is worth, my context is that I have seen the behavior of asking the room, or even just throwing out conjecture to the room, without properly doing research beforehand, to be a common flaw within computer scientists and within "tech workers" as a demographic. I had to put up for a whole year with one person making up what was complete and absolute nonsense through first principle reasoning, rather than just reading a 101 Sociology book, which would have answered all his questions effectively and with some basis in research. It is also something I see commonly within the Hacker News comments -- someone will ask a generic question to people in Hacker News, rather than doing even a cursory form of searching first. I do not understand the idea implied through this behaviour, that a random tech worker will know more than people whose job is to study the questions that are being asked, and so I resolved to ask this person, taking care to be polite, why they choose to engage in this behaviour.
treprinum 3y ago
Arginine has good short-term endothelial effects but bad long term effects. Most studies last <1 month observing the good effects but not monitoring future bad effects: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4069264/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4069264/
- jeffybefffy519 3y ago
  I am skeptical of this because as far as I understand, Arginine is naturally occurring in many foods.

salad-tycoon 3y ago

Side bar : L citrulline is thought to be more effective than arginine. One downside that I don’t see discussed much, as I’ve watched multiple recalls over recent years for supposed contamination of things like tmao and other toxins in either the manufacturing process or packaging process, I wonder how many supplements are contaminated. I have never seen an analysis even from the vendors who do pretty hefty chemical composition analysis.

esperent 3y ago
> I wonder how many supplements are contaminated. I have never seen an analysis even from the vendors who do pretty hefty chemical composition analysis. Why do you think food supplements would be more contaminated than other processed foods? Or even things like toothpaste or shampoo, those are also made from highly processes ingredients.
- fao_ 3y ago
  There's a large amount of precedence, that's why. Rather than asking the room, one would think the first step would be to obtain information and inform yourself. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5753965/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5753965/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34022259/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34022259/ https://theconversation.com/natural-supplements-can-be-dangerously-contaminated-or-not-even-have-the-specified-ingredients-131021 https://theconversation.com/natural-supplements-can-be-dange...
  - esperent 3y ago
    Why so defensive? I'm asking the room because it's a smart room, usually, and often there's someone who'll be far better informed than I could be with a quick search. That's literally why I spend time here. Regarding your links, I'm sure I could find similar studies about nearly any kind of food. I have a friend who won't eat peanuts because he's afraid of aflotoxins, which are real, genuinely dangerous, and if you think that peanut products are tested well enough to 100% guarantee the aflotoxins are always below safe levels in all peanut products you'll ever eat... Well, I'll disagree. https://inspection.canada.ca/food-safety-for-industry/food-chemistry-and-microbiology/food-safety-testing-reports-and-journal-articles/aflatoxins/eng/1557171015830/1557171066945 https://inspection.canada.ca/food-safety-for-industry/food-c... So again, why do you think supplements are worse than other food products? I don't agree that your links answer this question. They do show that there's often contaminants in supplements. They _don't_ show that supplements are unusual in this regard when compared to other food products. Your third link focuses on heavy metals in supplements. Here's a similar study showing they are also in baby food: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/heavy-metals-in-baby-food-what-parents-should-know-and-do-2021030522088 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/heavy-metals-in-baby-foo... So is it just supplements and baby food? Unlikely. More likely it's that supplements and baby food are both things that make people worry about contamination, so they test them more. Meanwhile your ketchup might be loaded with all kinds of contaminants but you'd never think of testing it.
    - fao_ 3y ago
      "These things are also contaminated" is shoddy argumentative reasoning at best, it is not the "got ya" that you think it is . I never claimed that there aren't contaminants in food, and I don't see how it defeats my claim that dietary supplements are unsafe -- the FDA is more stringent in regulation and testing with respect to food, as opposed to dietary supplements, because, you know, we need to eat to survive. Please take a second to read my comment here, before responding: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36930128 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36930128

fao_ 3y ago

One would think the first step would be to look it up. > Most healthy people do not need to supplement with arginine because it is a component of all protein-containing foods[15] and can be synthesized in the body from glutamine via citrulline. I do not understand how someone can wish to know something, but refuse to expend effort to obtain the information they wish to seek? I hope it would be ok for you to explain this behaviour, please?

chownie 3y ago
This seems unfairly aggressive. GP asked what the downside is to preventatively taking l-arganine as a supplement, your quote addresses only whether it's required. In short, you can't test your own blood so you don't know when your levels may be low. If there were no downsides to constantly supplementing then what reasons may there be to not do this? That is I think the actual question.
- xwowsersx 3y ago
  It is unfairly aggressive and they did this twice just in this thread. The other was here: > There's a large amount of precedence, that's why. Rather than asking the room, one would think the first step would be to obtain information and inform yourself. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36930036 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36930036 I don't know why this person feels the need to roam around the conversation policing how people are engaging in it. It's incredibly obnoxious. Especially frustrating given that they do seem to have some information to share, which they could do and just omit the completely gratuitous and unwarranted hostility.
  - fao_ 3y ago
    I clearly made a point of inquiring why the behaviour was performed, it was an honest inquiry, I am genuinely curious. For what it is worth, my context is that I have seen the behavior of asking the room, or even just throwing out conjecture to the room, without properly doing research beforehand, to be a common flaw within computer scientists and within "tech workers" as a demographic. I had to put up for a whole year with one person making up what was complete and absolute nonsense through first principle reasoning, rather than just reading a 101 Sociology book, which would have answered all his questions effectively and with some basis in research. It is also something I see commonly within the Hacker News comments -- someone will ask a generic question to people in Hacker News, rather than doing even a cursory form of searching first. I do not understand the idea implied through this behaviour, that a random tech worker will know more than people whose job is to study the questions that are being asked, and so I resolved to ask this person, taking care to be polite, why they choose to engage in this behaviour.

treprinum 3y ago

Arginine has good short-term endothelial effects but bad long term effects. Most studies last <1 month observing the good effects but not monitoring future bad effects: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4069264/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4069264/

jeffybefffy519 3y ago
I am skeptical of this because as far as I understand, Arginine is naturally occurring in many foods.