5 ms·

There really needs to be more regulation with products like this. As a start transparent disclosure of their safety record, a restriction on shipping the produ

There really needs to be more regulation with products like this. As a start transparent disclosure of their safety record, a restriction on shipping the product to countries where such devices are not legal, clarity on how the device behaves under adverse conditions e.g. rain/snow etc. Comma selling this product like it's some car accessory looks pretty reckless to me.

latchkey 3y ago
I'm pretty impressed we haven't heard about more crashes... https://www.reddit.com/r/Comma_ai/comments/u9o1mm/my_first_accident_with_comma_three/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Comma_ai/comments/u9o1mm/my_first_a...
- tjpnz 3y ago
  The kind of person who would buy this would know more about its limitations than your average Tesla owner.
  - latchkey 3y ago
    What if I buy a used car that has it in it already?
    - timfsu 3y ago
      It's the kind of thing the owner would probably keep for themselves when selling the car. It's fairly easy to uninstall - just unplug and remove a windshield sticker.
  - ahahahahah 3y ago
    Eh, maybe a little. But I think most people on this website could buy this but they are clearly incapable of understanding the limits of Tesla's shitty AI. The reasons we haven't heard much about accidents with this are (1) they have like orders of magnitude less users than Tesla and (2) nobody gives a shit about this little company and so media doesn't rush to talk about it.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - chrisjj 3y ago
      I'm guessing no-one will give a shit about the company size when first there's a death. We'll see.
  - chrisjj 3y ago
    More to the point, the kind of person who buys this would not want more known about its limitations than your average Tesla owner.
atemerev 3y ago
You are already responsible for whatever your car is doing, regardless of how it is driven. What additional regulation we need?
- fyolnish 3y ago
  Regulation making you responsible for reckless behavior before you cause an accident.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - happytiger 3y ago
    We have that. Drivers are responsible for the outcomes of their driving with licenses, insurance, a legal framework for operating vehicles, and even uniform enforcement. What else would you add? Adding a technical stack will lead to court cases but our current system can accomodate — we already have tons of driving modifying systems in cars and nobody blinks an eye. The only reason this is even controversial is that it’s third party and not provided by the manufacturer. I would suggest that we are good! The current regulatory compliance and enforcement system can accommodate this change.
    - incongruity 3y ago
      The biggest question I see is insurance coverage. I could imagine insurers moving to not cover accidents during the use of aftermarket systems like this in the same way they won’t cover incidents during track use and the like.
    - yardstick 3y ago
      Why bother with drink driving rules if we already have laws against reckless driving? Is it not fundamentally the same? If not why not?
- threeseed 3y ago
  I described some of the regulation we need. People buying these devices are simply ill-informed about the risks that they pose to other drivers and pedestrians because companies like Comma deliberately withhold the information. And given innocent lives are at stake the onus should be on being cautious about technologies like these until they are proven.
Roark66 3y ago
Come on, in the end it's the driver that's responsible. It is in fact a "car accessory". Calling for "more regulation" will blow out small companies like comma ai out of the market. It's a miracle one can get stuff like this for older cars. If big auto manufacturers had their way you couldn't change wiper blades without buying a new car. As someone driving an 18 year old car I hope there will be more companies like comma ai. (of course my car is too old to use with comma).
- mellosouls 3y ago
  Come on, in the end it's the driver that's responsible It's not always the driver who's the sole victim of driver irresponsibility. Protecting those others are what regulations and laws are for.
- wiseowise 3y ago
  > Come on, in the end it's the driver that's responsible. It is in fact a "car accessory". I’m sure victim (or their relatives in case of their death) will be relieved. > Calling for "more regulation" will blow out small companies like comma ai out of the market. Will someone think of my cool tech startapperinos?!
gst 3y ago
> Comma selling this product like it's some car accessory looks pretty reckless to me. Comma is not selling openpilot (the software that makes your car self-driving), but they are selling the Comma devices that out-if-the-box just include dashcam functionality and a few additional features. Openpilot is an open-source project on Github that makes cars self-driving and that also runs on regular Linux PCs as well as those Comma devices. Do you suggest that Comma should not be allowed to sell the Comma devices anymore (that out of the box work as a Dashcam)? Or do you suggest that Comma should not be allowed to contribute to an open-source project that can make cars self-driving?
- Novosell 3y ago
  So, the way you phrased it made me believe that this "openpilot" software is unaffiliated with Comma.ai. But they are, in fact, the owners and maintainers of the openpilot repo and link directly to it on their website.
  - gst 3y ago
    I didn't mean to say that they are not the owners, but that those two items (Comma devices and the software) are two different things. Yes - Comma owns that repository and there are instructions on how to put the software on Comma devices. But then also lots of commits are from authors not affiliated with Comma and my understanding is that quite a few users of that software aren't actually using the official repository, but various forks maintained by third parties.
    - rawrawrawrr 3y ago
      This isn't a serious argument. Comma trains the model that OpenPilot uses. I doubt anyone else has trained their own.
- foota 3y ago
  From Comma's website: "Meet the comma 3X The comma 3X is custom hardware designed to live in your car, and purpose built to run openpilot. The comma 3X has three beautiful HDR cameras, two cameras to watch the road and one night-vision camera to see inside the car. "
unpopular42 3y ago
Why people start to cry for regulation whenever they see something new these days? Hasn't been the case before, something has shifted in people's minds in the last 10 years or so
- Barrin92 3y ago
  because this is a device installed in two tons of steel moving around at lethal velocities in close vicinity to human beings who didn't sign up to be unwilling beta testers. If anything 10 or 20 years ago this wouldn't have even made it on the streets. Can you imagine a factory where machines with the potential to dismember someone are installed by amateurs with no certification? This is like that except factory machines don't drive next to school yards.
  - unpopular42 3y ago
    You are presenting it like "certification" is some kind of guarantee. The reality is that it isn't. Industrial accidents happen all the time and it remains to be proven that certifications and regulations actually improve anything.
  - Rebelgecko 3y ago
    >Can you imagine a factory where machines with the potential to dismember someone are installed by amateurs with no certification I've got some bad news for you about human drivers, they're typically allowed to get a single certification as a teenager that lets them operate a motor vehicle for 50+ years with no recalibration other than maybe a decadal vision test. We inspect elevators more often than human drivers, despite elevator deaths being much more rare (maybe that's a cause and effect relationship?)
- redox99 3y ago
  People are extremely risk averse nowadays. The same way children could play outside alone before, and can't now.
  - CalRobert 3y ago

latchkey 3y ago

I'm pretty impressed we haven't heard about more crashes... https://www.reddit.com/r/Comma_ai/comments/u9o1mm/my_first_accident_with_comma_three/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Comma_ai/comments/u9o1mm/my_first_a...

tjpnz 3y ago
The kind of person who would buy this would know more about its limitations than your average Tesla owner.
- latchkey 3y ago
  What if I buy a used car that has it in it already?
  - timfsu 3y ago
    It's the kind of thing the owner would probably keep for themselves when selling the car. It's fairly easy to uninstall - just unplug and remove a windshield sticker.
- ahahahahah 3y ago
  Eh, maybe a little. But I think most people on this website could buy this but they are clearly incapable of understanding the limits of Tesla's shitty AI. The reasons we haven't heard much about accidents with this are (1) they have like orders of magnitude less users than Tesla and (2) nobody gives a shit about this little company and so media doesn't rush to talk about it.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - chrisjj 3y ago
    I'm guessing no-one will give a shit about the company size when first there's a death. We'll see.
- chrisjj 3y ago
  More to the point, the kind of person who buys this would not want more known about its limitations than your average Tesla owner.

atemerev 3y ago

You are already responsible for whatever your car is doing, regardless of how it is driven. What additional regulation we need?

fyolnish 3y ago
Regulation making you responsible for reckless behavior before you cause an accident.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- happytiger 3y ago
  We have that. Drivers are responsible for the outcomes of their driving with licenses, insurance, a legal framework for operating vehicles, and even uniform enforcement. What else would you add? Adding a technical stack will lead to court cases but our current system can accomodate — we already have tons of driving modifying systems in cars and nobody blinks an eye. The only reason this is even controversial is that it’s third party and not provided by the manufacturer. I would suggest that we are good! The current regulatory compliance and enforcement system can accommodate this change.
  - incongruity 3y ago
    The biggest question I see is insurance coverage. I could imagine insurers moving to not cover accidents during the use of aftermarket systems like this in the same way they won’t cover incidents during track use and the like.
  - yardstick 3y ago
    Why bother with drink driving rules if we already have laws against reckless driving? Is it not fundamentally the same? If not why not?
threeseed 3y ago
I described some of the regulation we need. People buying these devices are simply ill-informed about the risks that they pose to other drivers and pedestrians because companies like Comma deliberately withhold the information. And given innocent lives are at stake the onus should be on being cautious about technologies like these until they are proven.

Roark66 3y ago

Come on, in the end it's the driver that's responsible. It is in fact a "car accessory". Calling for "more regulation" will blow out small companies like comma ai out of the market. It's a miracle one can get stuff like this for older cars. If big auto manufacturers had their way you couldn't change wiper blades without buying a new car. As someone driving an 18 year old car I hope there will be more companies like comma ai. (of course my car is too old to use with comma).

mellosouls 3y ago
Come on, in the end it's the driver that's responsible It's not always the driver who's the sole victim of driver irresponsibility. Protecting those others are what regulations and laws are for.
wiseowise 3y ago
> Come on, in the end it's the driver that's responsible. It is in fact a "car accessory". I’m sure victim (or their relatives in case of their death) will be relieved. > Calling for "more regulation" will blow out small companies like comma ai out of the market. Will someone think of my cool tech startapperinos?!

gst 3y ago

> Comma selling this product like it's some car accessory looks pretty reckless to me. Comma is not selling openpilot (the software that makes your car self-driving), but they are selling the Comma devices that out-if-the-box just include dashcam functionality and a few additional features. Openpilot is an open-source project on Github that makes cars self-driving and that also runs on regular Linux PCs as well as those Comma devices. Do you suggest that Comma should not be allowed to sell the Comma devices anymore (that out of the box work as a Dashcam)? Or do you suggest that Comma should not be allowed to contribute to an open-source project that can make cars self-driving?

Novosell 3y ago
So, the way you phrased it made me believe that this "openpilot" software is unaffiliated with Comma.ai. But they are, in fact, the owners and maintainers of the openpilot repo and link directly to it on their website.
- gst 3y ago
  I didn't mean to say that they are not the owners, but that those two items (Comma devices and the software) are two different things. Yes - Comma owns that repository and there are instructions on how to put the software on Comma devices. But then also lots of commits are from authors not affiliated with Comma and my understanding is that quite a few users of that software aren't actually using the official repository, but various forks maintained by third parties.
  - rawrawrawrr 3y ago
    This isn't a serious argument. Comma trains the model that OpenPilot uses. I doubt anyone else has trained their own.
foota 3y ago
From Comma's website: "Meet the comma 3X The comma 3X is custom hardware designed to live in your car, and purpose built to run openpilot. The comma 3X has three beautiful HDR cameras, two cameras to watch the road and one night-vision camera to see inside the car. "

unpopular42 3y ago

Why people start to cry for regulation whenever they see something new these days? Hasn't been the case before, something has shifted in people's minds in the last 10 years or so

Barrin92 3y ago
because this is a device installed in two tons of steel moving around at lethal velocities in close vicinity to human beings who didn't sign up to be unwilling beta testers. If anything 10 or 20 years ago this wouldn't have even made it on the streets. Can you imagine a factory where machines with the potential to dismember someone are installed by amateurs with no certification? This is like that except factory machines don't drive next to school yards.
- unpopular42 3y ago
  You are presenting it like "certification" is some kind of guarantee. The reality is that it isn't. Industrial accidents happen all the time and it remains to be proven that certifications and regulations actually improve anything.
- Rebelgecko 3y ago
  >Can you imagine a factory where machines with the potential to dismember someone are installed by amateurs with no certification I've got some bad news for you about human drivers, they're typically allowed to get a single certification as a teenager that lets them operate a motor vehicle for 50+ years with no recalibration other than maybe a decadal vision test. We inspect elevators more often than human drivers, despite elevator deaths being much more rare (maybe that's a cause and effect relationship?)
redox99 3y ago
People are extremely risk averse nowadays. The same way children could play outside alone before, and can't now.
- CalRobert 3y ago