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1953 'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, screening in Tokyo
- durkie 3y agoIn light of the release of Oppenheimer, people have been talking about, basically, the other side of the development of atomic weapons. John Hersey's "Hiroshima" article from the August 23, 1946 edition of the New Yorker came up as the definitive piece on the immediate impact of the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima, and it is a gripping read: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1946/08/31/hiroshima https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1946/08/31/hiroshima
- seizethecheese 3y agoI’ve read this a few times and every time I’m left gobsmacked for at least a day. I recommend everyone read it.
- Baeocystin 3y agohttps://web.archive.org/web/20230130070028/https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1946/08/31/hiroshima https://web.archive.org/web/20230130070028/https://www.newyo...
- koheripbal 3y agoYes, although they touched on the impact of the bomb on Japanese civilians a little, they didn't really do it justice, and it's a shame because I think it would have really provided an important insight on why Oppenheimer's views changed over time. The movie lacked a cohesive story anyway, so that would have added some meaning.
- ransackdev 3y agoThe movie was about the man, not the bomb, which is why it focused primarily on a man, and not a bomb. The actual testing of the bomb was a small part of the movie and the real deployments of it were but a couple sentences. The movie Oppenheimer was never a movie about Hiroshima and while I think there needs to be more coverage in general about our impact on Japan by dropping those bombs, I think giving the movie Oppenheimer shit about it isn't reasonable just because the man worked on it. It covered everything from the his view point, and what he personally lived. He read about the bombs being used the same as everyone else, and it wouldn't have fit the movie to suddenly jump to Japan to show the impact of his work. It did however try to visualize the impact and eventual realization of what he had played a part in, in the visuals at the compound when he's giving the speech to the fanatical coworkers stomping their feet (which was very Aronofsky like imo)
- jorgesborges 3y agoIt’s still true to say the movie lacked a cohesive story — it may have been “about the man” but it was an incoherent battery of spoken facts rather than a personal journey with growth and progression.
- randallsquared 3y agoWould you prefer that we only get biopics about people who have storybook personal growth or would you prefer that more of the biopics we get are fictionalized? 'Cause that's the choice we have, if we act on your complaint. People tell stories. They are not themselves stories. Most people, even really important, impactful people, were just doing something interesting, or putting one foot in front of another, or pursuing short-term goals.
- jorgesborges 3y agoMy complaint is that it was boring, not that it wasn't storybook -- although come on the scenes with Einstein (and many others) were terribly storybook.
- squarepizza 3y agoAt some point I just closed my eyes and pretended I was listening to a radio drama, which is what it could've / should've been.
- ransackdev 3y agoSome people don’t have personal growth just because time passes. Maybe that’s true for this person.
- justinclift 3y agoUgh. Clearly the author was paid by the word. That's painfully super stretched out writing. :( Couldn't even make it a 10th of the way through that without losing all interest and moving on.
- seizethecheese 3y agoEveryone is entitled to their own opinion. For me this is one of the best pieces of reporting I’ve ever read.
- Baeocystin 3y agoI've certainly read pieces that were padded and tedious. This one genuinely, truly is not. Take the first section: every vignette is tightly constructed; you get a sense of the person, the zeitgeist of fear they were living in, and the arbitrary moment that made All The Difference. This structure is repeated point-by-point for each of the survivors, deliberately, to hammer home each element. Part II has its own structure, emphasizing the chaos. Each part flows well from one to the next. The entire article is an excellent example of writing. It's clear that the author himself is grappling with what to feel about it all. It's powerful stuff.
- hulitu 3y agoThere are those articles which talk about a date, and in the process you get to know the whole extended families of the victims, together with a 30 years history of the families.
- numpad0 3y agoThis is news writing in non-English plus translation. Translated text is always off-putting, especially beyond same language groups. I found the link to the original if anyone needs it, by the way. 1: https://mainichi.jp/articles/20230728/k00/00m/040/198000c https://mainichi.jp/articles/20230728/k00/00m/040/198000c
- evrimoztamur 3y agoThat was a hard read. I also recommend Barefoot Gen, the comic series, by Keiji Nakazawa. The depth of the visuals added a lot to my understanding and empathy.
- veonik 3y agoBarefoot Gen was also adapted as an anime movie and it's... rough. Another heart-wrenching anime related to the bombings is Grave of the Fireflies.
- asynchronous 3y agoGrave of the Fireflies is about the Tokoyo firebombing raids btw.
- Baeocystin 3y ago*Kobe, not Tokyo. FWIW.
- ThrowawayR2 3y agoPost-war Japan has had some really good marketing. You'll never see films or comics depicting Nazi Germany under Allied bombing and the suffering of those on the homefront loyal to the Third Reich; anybody who who tried to create a "Barfuß Jens" or "Das Grab der Glühwürmchen" would be torn to shreds for being pro-fascist and few would consume anything so tasteless. Yet ordinary Japanese people conscripted into the Imperial Japanese Army committed the equivalent of the Holocaust across Asia, widespread atrocities terrible enough to revolt even Nazi observers. It's not like they would have treated Westerners any better either; look at what they did to Allied POWs. But whitewashing with articles and films, not even that many really, and today Westerners are expressing "understanding and empathy" to the wartime Japanese, loyal to their country and divine Emperor, receiving the consequences of a war they themselves started. Understanding and empathy are good but let's not be uncritical about what their purpose is or unaware of the larger historical context.
- throw0101a 3y agoThe word "article" is used loosely, as it was later published as a (31,000-word, 160p) book: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshima_(book) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshima_(book)
- lostlogin 3y agoThat should be required reading for everyone everywhere.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y ago“ The story portrays the chaos in the immediate aftermath of the U.S.' Aug. 6, 1945 atomic bombing of Hiroshima, with some 88,000 residents, many of them survivors, performing as extras.” I wonder in how many induced PTSD. That term did not exist in the 1950s and maybe was not understood or at least appreciated.
- zer8k 3y agoIt's been around a lot longer. We've called it Shell Shock, War Neurosis, Battle Fatigue and several other things. It's well documented. PTSD, imo, is just another layer of indirection when referring to trauma. It's name provides significantly less meaning than something like "shell shock" which gets right to the point of the matter. PTSD was certainly appreciated. Patton famously got a reaming from Eisenhower for how he treated shell shocked troops during the war.
- mcpackieh 3y ago"Shell shock" becomes a euphemism when you're talking about people traumatized by something other than artillery. PTSD is more general, and therefore more precise in the general case.
- Knee_Pain 3y agoEuphemism means using softer words. Getting shellshock from a machine gun is not an euphemism
- mcpackieh 3y agoThe context of this conversation is people who were traumatized by an atomic bomb. I think atomic bomb to artillery qualifies as such a softening.
- Knee_Pain 3y agoAnd Post Traumatic STRESS Disorder isn't? You got an atomic bomb dropped on you, experienced a literal apocalyptic sun consuming everything you loved first hand and all you (impersonal) can come up with is "stress"? If you want to stay coherent then we should have made up a term specifically to tackle the world-ending experiences these people lived through.
- wiseowise 3y agoThis is what Oppenheimer should’ve been about. Not SPOILERS Mediocre politics, sex, boredom biopic.
- spacephysics 3y agoThe movie was based off a book, which was about Oppenheimer hence the title. I thought it was amazing, sure some parts were a bit long. Makes sense if the movie Hiroshima is more focused on Hiroshima than Oppenheimer.
- Knee_Pain 3y agoA movie about Oppenheimer's life should be about... the immediate fallout of the bomb on the Japanese population?
- mcpackieh 3y agoI think his role in that overshadows the rest of his life.
- Knee_Pain 3y agoI think he was a human with a rich multi-faceted life and this line of reasoning is exactly how we arrive in 2023 with people who, for instance, don't know about Columbus' genocides because "discovering America overshadowed the rest of his life so we didn't bother to cover it in school". Yeah, no.
- mcpackieh 3y agoBetter for a Columbus movie to focus on the genocides than his sex life, no?
- solumunus 3y ago[flagged]
- wiseowise 3y ago
- gre 3y ago"The bomb didnt beat Japan, Stalin did" https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-jap...
- thegaulofthem 3y agoThat garbage piece of writing completely ignores nearly 80 years of conventional history which includes first-hand account from the very Japanese council cited in the story. Absolute joke content that doesn’t belong on a site like this.
- gre 3y agoWhat did the Japanese council say? Link me something to read! Also, what do you mean by "a site like this?" Lmao
- Etheryte 3y agoWould you mind pointing out what exactly is wrong in the article? Right now it isn't very clear what you take issue with. Most of what I've read about the surrender of Japan puts a lot of emphasis on the Soviet invasion, not only on the bombings, so I would be interested to know what you mean.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- zeroCalories 3y agoThe article is from a respected foreign policy site, and makes a case that is well accepted by historians. You can say that the bombs were still justified(which I believe), but the attitude in these comments are borderline insane. Makes you think americans can't handle a little criticism without losing their mind.
- andai 3y agoFascinating article. Website is awful though. Here's the article without auto-playing video, missing ads, page crashing, and paragraphs of text randomly jumping around the page: https://archive.ph/HkeMn https://archive.ph/HkeMn
- boomboomsubban 3y agoI'm sure the title was truncated for length, but missing "screening in Tokyo" gives a very different impression of what the story is about. I thought some new film was being made by Hollywood with 88,000 extras filming a scene tomorrow.
- dang 3y agoOk, I've attempted to make it clearer (submitted title was "'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, set for July 30" and yes HN's title limit is 80 chars so the full title wouldn't fit)
- semi-extrinsic 3y agoThere is also an excellent documentary called The Day After Trinity. It is IMO well balanced and has interviews with a lot of the physicists who actually worked with Oppenheimer at Los Alamos, and a few who went to Japan after the blasts to document the aftermath. It is on the Archive: https://archive.org/details/thedayaftertrinity/thedayaftertrinityreel1.mov https://archive.org/details/thedayaftertrinity/thedayaftertr... Also worth mentioning is the BBC podcast The Bomb: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08llv8n/episodes/downloads https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08llv8n/episodes/downloads
- barrenko 3y agoAlso on Criterion Collection / Channel - https://www.criterionchannel.com/the-day-after-trinity/videos/the-day-after-trinity https://www.criterionchannel.com/the-day-after-trinity/video...
- npunt 3y agoOn youtube (paid): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L8YIS2DCVU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L8YIS2DCVU
- jrflowers 3y agoIf anyone is interested in a documentary about the survivors of the atom bombs, I cannot recommend White Light/Black Rain strong enough. I believe it is streaming on HBO or whatever in the US. It goes without saying that it is very graphic and not for the faint hearted. Edit: here it is on YouTube https://youtube.com/watch?v=C3ARusnC37o https://youtube.com/watch?v=C3ARusnC37o
- cubefox 3y agoAccording to a 2015 survey[1], 56% of US Americans say the bombings were justified, while 34% say they were not. This relatively positive (or non-negative) assessment of the A-bombs might have influenced their portrayal in "Oppenheimer", an American production. The Japanese re-screening of "Hiroshima" might be aimed at countering their depiction in "Oppenheimer". [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/08/04/70-years-after-hiroshima-opinions-have-shifted-on-use-of-atomic-bomb/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/08/04/70-years-...
- nerdponx 3y agoAmericans are often taught that the bombings resulted in less loss of life than a conventional land invasion of the home islands. So it's not quite a matter of "A-bomb good". Plenty of Americans alive today lived through the Cold War too, and spent years or decades in low-level fear of nuclear war. It's not quite as simple as "nukes good therefore no criticism of nukes in movie". Part of the interest in things like the Manhattan Project is the grim context of what happened next, and of the alluring eeriness of radiation and nuclear weapons in general.
- judge2020 3y ago> Americans are often taught that the bombings resulted in less loss of life than a conventional land invasion of the home islands. Or, at least, less loss of American life. If The United Kingdom had not consented to the bombs and they were shelved, what are the chances the U.S. would've lost e.g. 50,000 and Japan 150,000 before surrender?
- networkchad 3y agoDo you really believe the consent of UK was a real gating decision? Lol. I chalk that one up purely to diplomatic nice-ness.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- adastra22 3y ago
- geon 3y agoCan someone parse the title for me? I feel like there might be a couple of garden paths in there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden-path_sentence
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago"1953 'Phantom' A-bomb film 'Hiroshima,' with 88,000 extras, screening in Tokyo" > The 1953 movie "Hiroshima", about the atom bomb, will be screening in Tokyo. The movie had 88,000 extras. (The word 'Phantom' is confusing. According the article, the movie is called a "phantom" movie because it was produced in Japan but was not released in Japan due to a dispute between the publisher and the filmmakers.)
- numpad0 3y agoFor context: "the phantom of ___(幻の___)" is a common clickbait phrase in Japanese media, used in similar manners to "legendary", "forbidden" or "hidden" in English. I would guess "A Forgotten 1953 Film 'Hiroshima'" would be a less accurate but more understandable translation.
- TaylorAlexander 3y agoOh that is helpful thank you!
- geon 3y agoThank you!
- nirav72 3y agoI'm imagining that coordinating 88,000 extras for the shoot had to be challenging.
- cameldrv 3y agoFrankly, for all of the hand wringing over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it pales in comparison to Japanese atrocities in China and many other places. In stark contrast to Germany where every school kid learns about the millions killed in the Holocaust, the rape of Nanking and many, many more atrocities by Imperial Japan are routinely denied altogether in Japan. When it comes to the U.S., I can say that I certainly learned about the bombings, it was presented as extremely morally ambiguous, our class held a debate over it, and I was shown pictures of atomic bomb victims in the textbooks I was given.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]