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Do the thought experiment where you grow up riding a recumbent and you "try" a regular road bike and crash. Your head is higher and likely the first thing to hi

Do the thought experiment where you grow up riding a recumbent and you "try" a regular road bike and crash. Your head is higher and likely the first thing to hit an obstacle - concussion. A pretzeled front wheel or flat tyre or collision can catapult you onto the road - concussion plus broken collarbone/arm plus who knows what else. Those aren't injuries you'll get as easily on a recumbent. Instead (as you found) your legs, out in front, take the hit. That can help - unclipping and getting feet out to stabilize (a front flat) or brace for an impact isn't something you can do on an upright. On an upright you use your head and your arms to break the fall/impact. I don't think either is inherently safer, it's just the diamond frame is the qwerty of push bikes because the UCI said so 100 years ago. I've probably ridden dozens of recumbents. Some have an excellent turning circle but they tend not to be as fun bombing down a hill. Some (LWB with USS) can't u-turn on a US 2 lane road but would be the ideal bike to collide with something (wheel->fork->frame->feet taking the impact.) I've also let dozens of people try my bike and no disrespect but "experienced cyclists" are the ones that scare me. Strong, fast, confident, they are definitely the run-before-you-walk folks. Recumbents, tricycles, bmxes etc. all handle differently, especially at speed. They are all just as easy to get up to speed but most people won't try that first. I ride both and don't pretend the extra visibility of the upright makes me any safer. You have to ride like you are invisible because to cars you just are.

jacquesm 3y ago
I've had three different recumbents and you're going to have to take my word for it that I know how to ride them. You feel a lot safer because you're closer to the ground but that's part of the problem: leg suck has a feed-forward mechanism that you can not overcome at speed. I'm fortunate that there were no cars nearby or I probably wouldn't be writing this at all, it was over and done with in a split second, like that you're riding comfortably and like that you're out of control. Of course I'm not going to convince you, just like nobody would have been able to convince me prior to my accident. That's fine. I hope that if and when you do fall you end up with just a scare so you'll realize I wasn't kidding: the illusion of safety and control is just that, you have neither.
Brian_K_White 3y ago
That thought experiment is worthless junk. The differences in dynamics of the two designs are not just different but equivalent. There are countless ways in which a standard diamond frame is practical and handles a given situation that a recumbent can't. And I love recumbents because I love weird things. I have both 2 wheel and tadpole trike recumbents. They are the only bikes I ever ride given any choice. But they are actually quite unsafe for both myself and everyone else, and quite, even ridiculously, comically impractical. You can't do the simplest thing like just hop a curb or a tree root, because you can't pull up on the front wheel. There is no amount of life long 'grew up used to it' that magics that away, nor about 100 other similar typical situations. Climbing hills is ridiculously difficult, even with highly practiced spinning technique, because simply standing up on the pedals one at a time is just far simpler, and preserves your momentum better,with no special expert technique. The simple fact that you are already upright makes crashing on a DF infinitely more navigable. There is no such thing as just hopping off a crashing recumbent and landing on your feet. That happens all the time on a df. There is just not even remotely a comparison, not even in the same universe when it comes to either safety or practicality all day every day in all the infinite random situations from parking, storing, threading through narrow pathways and gaps anywhere a pedestrian could go, bringing on a train/bus, up the stairs to your appartment or office, wearing a backpack and not needing any other on-bike cargo space... Recumbents are great in a few particular ways, but they are neither safe nor practical.
- bunabhucan 3y ago
  I guess I'm missing something. I can "wheelie" the front wheel of my recumbent up a curb. Stomp the pedal while leaning back and it hops up. Very few people have the stamina to stand on the pedals for more than a short hill. A friend and I rode a recumbent and a regular touring bike from Oregon to San Francisco with camping gear in panniers. We would switch bikes and I don't remember either being particularly worse or better when climbing inland to campsites. When we got to San Francisco we used a bike path map to find and ride all the 25+ % gradient streets and alleys. For a short hill any upright will be faster. Longer hills, equal weight (recumbents are usually heavier) and the answer becomes "meh."
- jacquesm 3y ago
nradov 3y ago
While the UCI rules on road bike frame design are a bit ridiculous, there are non-double-diamond upright bikes available for those who want them. Aerodynamics may be marginally better but otherwise it doesn't make much difference. The extra visibility of an upright makes you safer because you can see farther and proactively avoid hazards.

jacquesm 3y ago

I've had three different recumbents and you're going to have to take my word for it that I know how to ride them. You feel a lot safer because you're closer to the ground but that's part of the problem: leg suck has a feed-forward mechanism that you can not overcome at speed. I'm fortunate that there were no cars nearby or I probably wouldn't be writing this at all, it was over and done with in a split second, like that you're riding comfortably and like that you're out of control. Of course I'm not going to convince you, just like nobody would have been able to convince me prior to my accident. That's fine. I hope that if and when you do fall you end up with just a scare so you'll realize I wasn't kidding: the illusion of safety and control is just that, you have neither.

Brian_K_White 3y ago

That thought experiment is worthless junk. The differences in dynamics of the two designs are not just different but equivalent. There are countless ways in which a standard diamond frame is practical and handles a given situation that a recumbent can't. And I love recumbents because I love weird things. I have both 2 wheel and tadpole trike recumbents. They are the only bikes I ever ride given any choice. But they are actually quite unsafe for both myself and everyone else, and quite, even ridiculously, comically impractical. You can't do the simplest thing like just hop a curb or a tree root, because you can't pull up on the front wheel. There is no amount of life long 'grew up used to it' that magics that away, nor about 100 other similar typical situations. Climbing hills is ridiculously difficult, even with highly practiced spinning technique, because simply standing up on the pedals one at a time is just far simpler, and preserves your momentum better,with no special expert technique. The simple fact that you are already upright makes crashing on a DF infinitely more navigable. There is no such thing as just hopping off a crashing recumbent and landing on your feet. That happens all the time on a df. There is just not even remotely a comparison, not even in the same universe when it comes to either safety or practicality all day every day in all the infinite random situations from parking, storing, threading through narrow pathways and gaps anywhere a pedestrian could go, bringing on a train/bus, up the stairs to your appartment or office, wearing a backpack and not needing any other on-bike cargo space... Recumbents are great in a few particular ways, but they are neither safe nor practical.

bunabhucan 3y ago
I guess I'm missing something. I can "wheelie" the front wheel of my recumbent up a curb. Stomp the pedal while leaning back and it hops up. Very few people have the stamina to stand on the pedals for more than a short hill. A friend and I rode a recumbent and a regular touring bike from Oregon to San Francisco with camping gear in panniers. We would switch bikes and I don't remember either being particularly worse or better when climbing inland to campsites. When we got to San Francisco we used a bike path map to find and ride all the 25+ % gradient streets and alleys. For a short hill any upright will be faster. Longer hills, equal weight (recumbents are usually heavier) and the answer becomes "meh."
jacquesm 3y ago

nradov 3y ago

While the UCI rules on road bike frame design are a bit ridiculous, there are non-double-diamond upright bikes available for those who want them. Aerodynamics may be marginally better but otherwise it doesn't make much difference. The extra visibility of an upright makes you safer because you can see farther and proactively avoid hazards.