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Do you seriously say this? I cannot imagine how insufferable it would be to hear this from somebody. I have kids and I don't care how my SUV makes you feel.
by thepasswordis 3y ago
Do you seriously say this? I cannot imagine how insufferable it would be to hear this from somebody.
I have kids and I don't care how my SUV makes you feel. Riding a bike is a cool hobby, and my family and I own tons of bikes that we take on the awesome bike paths they have all over our town. Bikes are also a great way to exercise.
But they don't really belong on roads. Taking a bike a place it isn't mean to go, then complaining about how unfit for the bike that place is, is absurd.
You aren't supposed to stand up in a movie theater. You are supposed to drive your car on the streets that we build specifically for driving cars.
- Dylan16807 3y ago> I have kids and I don't care how my SUV makes you feel. Okay, but you should be aware that everyone with an SUV increases the danger to everyone else's kids. > But they don't really belong on roads. Taking a bike a place it isn't mean to go, then complaining about how unfit for the bike that place is, is absurd. Bikes have to share roads almost everywhere, and big cars are also bad at pedestrian safety. > You aren't supposed to stand up in a movie theater. You are supposed to drive your car on the streets that we build specifically for driving cars. You're supposed to have a car, you're not supposed to have an oversized one.
- fnimick 3y agoOh, they know, but they don't care. Their kids are in the SUV and they're fine. If your kids are outside the SUV and get run over, that's not their problem.
- thepasswordis 3y ago[flagged]
- mint2 3y ago> You are supposed to drive your car on the streets that we build specifically for driving cars. These types of statements illustrate the lack of cognition the average person employees versus parroting words. This superficial and attempted tautological sounding argument just speaks about how we have not gotten critical thinking education right. And roads built for cars just so happen to be the legally mandated place to ride bikes in many locals. Of course roads build with only considering car travel and no secondary effects are optimized for cars over bikes. That’s exactly the problem, not a point in the favor of cars or for driving cars.
- fnimick 3y ago"Roads are for cars, not for bikes or people" You realize how stupid you sound, right?
- franga2000 3y agoThe thing is, purely out of context, I'd be inclined to agree. Roads are for cars, it's just that roads shouldn't be the only way to get to places. Add more walking and cycling paths and bikes/pedestrians won't have to use the roads.
- sobkas 3y ago> The thing is, purely out of context, I'd be inclined to agree. Roads are for cars, it's just that roads shouldn't be the only way to get to places. If roads are for cars, then you will have no problems with abolishing people being inside of them while they drive on your sacred car only roads? > Add more walking and cycling paths and bikes/pedestrians won't have to use the roads. Add them where? Because in your scenario it's either cars or pedestrians and guess who have better lobbyists?
- franga2000 3y agoI don't know what you're trying to say here... As far as I care, we can just ban cars entirely, but until then, separating the multi-ton metal boxes traveling at over 100 km/h operated by barely qualified teenagers from the squishy cyclists and pedestrians seems like a pretty obvious solution.
- throw9away6 3y agoWhy Is that stupid? It’s like saying airports are for planes or ports are for boats. Yes there are other vehicles there but primarily the design criteria is cars
- ksenzee 3y agoI 100% disagree with you about bikes on the road, and I do not own an SUV, but I have a twinge of sympathy for parents who do. I think people without young kids fail to understand just how difficult it is to fit multiple carseats into a sedan. If you have three kids, the only practical options are a minivan or an SUV. I am angry at the US government about the chicken tax and other incentives that have led to the rise of the SUV, but no individual parent is going to solve that problem. However: If you’re buying the biggest SUV you can so as to win the arms race, none of my sympathy applies to you. Stop it already. How do you even park?
- franga2000 3y ago> I think people without young kids fail to understand just how difficult it is to fit multiple carseats into a sedan You're right, I have no idea. But a lot of people in Europe have three young kids as well and seem to get by perfectly fine without SUVs. > no individual parent is going to solve that problem This is how social change dies. "I can't do change things on my own, so why inconvenience myself?" Having an SUV increases your chances of KILLING PEOPLE. How does not having one not change anything?? And cars are big, high-margin purchases, of course you putting +1 in the minivan instead of SUV purchases column at your local dealer is going to have some impact on what they stock and a push more of. And your neighbours will see how convenient your non-insane car is and that will slightly away them towards buying that instead.
- ksenzee 3y agoWhen my kids were car seat age, one of the three-kid strategies I saw talked about was “buy European car seats because they’re smaller.” I think if you live in Europe, you have not seen this problem.
- franga2000 3y agoThis just proves that it isn't an inherent problem, but one that americans created for themselves. Yes, you can just buy smaller car seats, just like you can buy a smaller car. They'll be a little harder to get at first and probably a bit more expensive, but next to the cost of a new car, it will be little more than a rounding error. And as more people start buying them, they'll get cheaper and easier to buy.
- jacquesm 3y ago> But they don't really belong on roads. You really should come and visit NL for a bit. I'll borrow you a bike so you can experience first hand what it's like when bikes are 'first class citizens'.
- slau 3y agoAs a fellow Dutch-speaker, I know in Dutch both are “lenen”, but in English borrow and lend are separate. You will lend them a bike, and they will borrow it from you. (I still don’t know how English ended up with separate verbs for both actions whereas Germanic languages only have one.)
- thepasswordis 3y agoIf you want to build Dutch bike paths all over my city then go for it. Like I said, biking is one of my families favorite leisure activities and we would use them all the time. Yay for bike paths! Especially if it keeps bikes out of the street.
- fnimick 3y agoYour attitude is pretty revealing. All those people on bikes need to be "kept off the street" when doing their "leisure activity." There's no more car-centric way to make that statement. It's as though the possibility of people going places they need to be while not in a car doesn't even cross your mind.
- r00fus 3y ago> I have kids and I don't care how my SUV makes you feel. This reflects more on you than the person you're replying to.
- beej71 3y agoMy SO lost thousands of dollars and was in pain for a month after her Honda Fit was totaled by a Big Truck that didn't see her over its huge hood. Proposal: special compact car paths where people can safely drive smaller cars that don't belong on the road.
- franga2000 3y agoCounter-proposal: special truck and huge car lanes where these dangerous vehicles can't harm others, driving more reasonable cars (that absolutely do belong on the road because they're way more space and energy efficient).
- fnimick 3y agoOr what if instead we required trucks to meet the safety standards of other vehicles? There's no reason hoods that high should be allowed, it's purely for aggressive styling, not any practical purpose.
- franga2000 3y agoSure, but I imagine (not an automotive engineer) some vehicles simply can't be designed to be crash-compatible with regular cars. Think buses, real trucks (like for cargo, not the big cars that americans like to call trucks), specialized vehicles... And either way, the intent of my "counter-proposal" is to point out that the normal size cars shouldn't be considered not suitable for road use just because there are bigger badder cars out there and that, if anything, the big and dangerous cars are the ones that should be segregated to protect everyone else, not the other way around.
- beej71 3y agoBut my proposal was satirical. :)
- franga2000 3y agoI'm very glad to hear that! I figured it might be, but also, I have heard similarly backwards proposals from city council members, so you never know...
- notacoward 3y ago> the streets that we build specifically for driving cars If you want to participate in these kinds of discussions and have them turn into anything but shouting matches, you might want to consider that "specifically for driving cars" is very much the problem for many people. They don't share your axiom that it should be that way, or even that it's OK. Think for a moment. In an ideal world, how much space would you devote to cars and parking vs. bikes and pedestrians? Now go see how much is devoted to that. A lot of people don't even realize how big those numbers are, and you might find that the percentage is greater than even you just determined it should be. Cyclists drive in the road because they feel they're already being denied their fair share of that space, and what space is nominally given them is unfit for purpose (especially with regard to safety and freedom from obstruction). You might agree with them and you might not, but simply stating your (probably unexamined) axiom as fact isn't going to get anyone anywhere. BTW it feels weird to me, taking the side of the cyclists. More often I'm at odds with them; I even recognize some of the names here from past encounters. As a "high speed pedestrian" (i.e. runner) I am absolutely sick and tired of cyclists trying to push me aside where I have every right to be and in fact 100% have right of way when there's contention. Especially when I know 99% of them are not commuters whose riding does anything whatsoever for the environment. The parking lot between the local bike path and where my daughter used to do karate is always full of cyclists unloading their bikes from their cars for what is clearly a recreational ride. They drove there (and back) to indulge in their hobby. I won't accept any self-righteous bullshit from them, but I do recognize that the actual bike commuters have every right to use paths and roads, and they're helping the (natural and human) environment by doing so.
- callalex 3y agoDo you care about the climate that your children will have to survive in when they grow older?
- panick21_ 3y ago> But they don't really belong on roads. Roads belonged to bikes before they belonged to cars. This a real case of 'check your privilege'.
- tatersolid 3y ago> Roads belonged to bikes before they belonged to cars. This is IMHO not true. In majority of the western world, roads belonged to horses and carts before the automobile. Bicycles were not very popular in most cities and towns in the 1800s, even in Europe. Cobblestone, brick, dirt and gravel roads of the 1800s were often impassible on the bicycles of that time. Asia likely had a historically different bicycle:car ratio though.
- panick21_ 3y agoNo roads were shared between people walking, playing, horses, carts, children and many other things.
- tatersolid 3y agoYou’re talking about streets, not roads.
- tasty_freeze 3y agoYes, I really did say that. Calling me insufferable isn't a great way to generate productive dialog.