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I read this stuff and I feel super cynic about it. I feel like "no way, not on my watch!", and then I realize that all I can do is sign a petition, or send an e

I read this stuff and I feel super cynic about it. I feel like "no way, not on my watch!", and then I realize that all I can do is sign a petition, or send an email to a representative that has zero fucking clue what this means... Same reason it does not matter to my zoomer brother its contemporaneous TikTokers. People DO-NOT-GIVE-A-SHIT. Because there are bigger problems, like "what the fuck am I going to pay the rent with tomorrow", and more entertaining spectacles, like watching a person pretend it's an NPC for 5 hours straight and give them money for it. And I feel a lot of the people I have worked with are the same type of individual, used to realizing they are getting screwed sideways, addicted to complaining, but only as long as it's among a very select group of individuals sharing common interests. It's the most draining type of revolution. Nothing ever gets done, fucks are handed left and right: DNS, JS-fiasco, web neutrality, browserland... And we always just kick the buck and revisit the good 'ol days on another thread further down the line, once no other rights are left be destroyed... And yet, what am I going to do? reject the PR?

neilalexander 3y ago
Frankly I couldn't have put it better myself. Even voting with your feet doesn't work because the platform just moves on without you.
- GoblinSlayer 3y ago
  Yep, Microsoft did just that. Moved on.
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    MSFT may have lost their web edge (and I'd argue that had more to do with Google legitimately out-maneuvering them by starting over on a new browser design from scratch than anything MSFT did), but in a sense they did "move on." Their stock value in the '90s when they got regulated was around $37; it's around $340 now. They pivoted to cloud services and their server products still do robust business.
    - gigel82 3y ago
      Not really "from scratch" though, Blink is a fork of WebKit. Sure, it's taken its own path since forking, but it's damn near impossible to start a browser from scratch these days (which is why ladybird is so impressive).
supriyo-biswas 3y ago
Don't write to your politicians, write to the appropriate competition authorities. See this recent discussion[1], as an example. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36877310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36877310
- thangalin 3y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36881511 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36881511 Google's address is 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, CA 94043.
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    You can write to them, but I promise you: incoming mail basically gets circular-filed if it's addressed "To whom it may concern," and if you try to inconvenience an individual Googler by calling them out they'll eventually leave directions with the front desk team to circular-file their mail for them and all you're doing is inconveniencing someone in the mail room every morning. Which, hey, if you think that's worth it, it's a free country and I can't tell you not to. Maybe you'll convince a front desk receptionist to petition the temp agency she works for to change companies. Google maintains a physical address because Googlers sometimes order packages and it's a legal requirement so they can be served formal court papers. That's it.
    - thangalin 3y ago
      Seems to be some misunderstanding: 1. Contact antitrust authorities: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880224 2. Use a template: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36881511 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36881511 3. Provide Google's address to the authorities: 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, CA 94043.
GoblinSlayer 3y ago
Nobody cared about superstitions, but they are solved.
mistrial9 3y ago
> People DO-NOT-GIVE-A-** you are upset so.. empathy on that, first. Please consider that the pressure of the situation somehow escalates blame on exactly the people who are not doing this. Consumer electronics users are not the ones who "vote" on the content. Closed-box computer systems with hierarchical, private and internal decision making, are arriving at decision points.
emilsedgh 3y ago
What is all these negative nonsense about "people don't give a shit" on every thread about this. We don't need every single person in the street to give a shit. We only need enough influence within the industry and regulatory to give a shit. And they are. We are all upset by this and upvoting it and companies and organizations are writing about it. Keep that up and push for other companies to reject it or for regulation to stop it. You know what Google fears most? Being broken down. If they push for this, we can organize calls to our representatives and raise our concerns and call for regulations and/or breakdown of Google's anti competitive behavior.
- amelius 3y ago
  Here's an idea: websites should show an annoying window when the user agent supports this crap, regardless of whether it's relevant to the website. Activism isn't restricted to the real world, or to "regular" people.
  - arsome 3y ago
    Hah, I like this idea, "It appears your browser passes web environment integrity, please come back when it fails"... I'd love to see a similar thing for SafetyNet on Android.
  - timeon 3y ago
    Why not. There are countless job positions for UX-designer unicorns while almost every page will give you anti-UX pop-up. One more banner will not going to harm the page.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    I don't know that protest by mass suicide has ever changed anything.
    - amelius 3y ago
      Most protesting has some negative consequences for the person(s) doing it. Suicide is a bit strong, to say the least.
lowtechhighlife 3y ago
There is something you can do. Becoming a privacy tool power user helps change the landscape of how people use and interact with tech. My question reading, assuming it’s main purpose is preventing as blocking, this is whether my pinhole dns blocker would be affected. If the new standard is dns blockers for everyone that’s an improvement in the landscape, at a small cost to the users. There is little adoption or support of privacy tools when there is no need for it and we trust our systems to be free and open, everyone is a tinfoil hat wearer until they aren’t and the boundaries have shifted. People should generally have better understanding of personal data protections, control over their services and the like but we are lazy until there is no other option but to take back control.
lapcat 3y ago
I'm actually heartened by the amount of public debate and pushback there has been already. Remember that this issue only came to the forefront about a week ago. You can't expect just to win overnight. People do care, but there are steps to creating public pressure. The public needs to become aware of the issue, to learn and understand the technical aspects of it, and to organize opposition. This is not necessarily a quick process.

neilalexander 3y ago

Frankly I couldn't have put it better myself. Even voting with your feet doesn't work because the platform just moves on without you.

GoblinSlayer 3y ago
Yep, Microsoft did just that. Moved on.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  MSFT may have lost their web edge (and I'd argue that had more to do with Google legitimately out-maneuvering them by starting over on a new browser design from scratch than anything MSFT did), but in a sense they did "move on." Their stock value in the '90s when they got regulated was around $37; it's around $340 now. They pivoted to cloud services and their server products still do robust business.
  - gigel82 3y ago
    Not really "from scratch" though, Blink is a fork of WebKit. Sure, it's taken its own path since forking, but it's damn near impossible to start a browser from scratch these days (which is why ladybird is so impressive).

supriyo-biswas 3y ago

Don't write to your politicians, write to the appropriate competition authorities. See this recent discussion[1], as an example. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36877310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36877310

thangalin 3y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36881511 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36881511 Google's address is 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, CA 94043.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  You can write to them, but I promise you: incoming mail basically gets circular-filed if it's addressed "To whom it may concern," and if you try to inconvenience an individual Googler by calling them out they'll eventually leave directions with the front desk team to circular-file their mail for them and all you're doing is inconveniencing someone in the mail room every morning. Which, hey, if you think that's worth it, it's a free country and I can't tell you not to. Maybe you'll convince a front desk receptionist to petition the temp agency she works for to change companies. Google maintains a physical address because Googlers sometimes order packages and it's a legal requirement so they can be served formal court papers. That's it.
  - thangalin 3y ago
    Seems to be some misunderstanding: 1. Contact antitrust authorities: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36880224 2. Use a template: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36881511 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36881511 3. Provide Google's address to the authorities: 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, CA 94043.

GoblinSlayer 3y ago

Nobody cared about superstitions, but they are solved.

mistrial9 3y ago

> People DO-NOT-GIVE-A-** you are upset so.. empathy on that, first. Please consider that the pressure of the situation somehow escalates blame on exactly the people who are not doing this. Consumer electronics users are not the ones who "vote" on the content. Closed-box computer systems with hierarchical, private and internal decision making, are arriving at decision points.

emilsedgh 3y ago

What is all these negative nonsense about "people don't give a shit" on every thread about this. We don't need every single person in the street to give a shit. We only need enough influence within the industry and regulatory to give a shit. And they are. We are all upset by this and upvoting it and companies and organizations are writing about it. Keep that up and push for other companies to reject it or for regulation to stop it. You know what Google fears most? Being broken down. If they push for this, we can organize calls to our representatives and raise our concerns and call for regulations and/or breakdown of Google's anti competitive behavior.

amelius 3y ago
Here's an idea: websites should show an annoying window when the user agent supports this crap, regardless of whether it's relevant to the website. Activism isn't restricted to the real world, or to "regular" people.
- arsome 3y ago
  Hah, I like this idea, "It appears your browser passes web environment integrity, please come back when it fails"... I'd love to see a similar thing for SafetyNet on Android.
- timeon 3y ago
  Why not. There are countless job positions for UX-designer unicorns while almost every page will give you anti-UX pop-up. One more banner will not going to harm the page.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  I don't know that protest by mass suicide has ever changed anything.
  - amelius 3y ago
    Most protesting has some negative consequences for the person(s) doing it. Suicide is a bit strong, to say the least.

lowtechhighlife 3y ago

There is something you can do. Becoming a privacy tool power user helps change the landscape of how people use and interact with tech. My question reading, assuming it’s main purpose is preventing as blocking, this is whether my pinhole dns blocker would be affected. If the new standard is dns blockers for everyone that’s an improvement in the landscape, at a small cost to the users. There is little adoption or support of privacy tools when there is no need for it and we trust our systems to be free and open, everyone is a tinfoil hat wearer until they aren’t and the boundaries have shifted. People should generally have better understanding of personal data protections, control over their services and the like but we are lazy until there is no other option but to take back control.

lapcat 3y ago

I'm actually heartened by the amount of public debate and pushback there has been already. Remember that this issue only came to the forefront about a week ago. You can't expect just to win overnight. People do care, but there are steps to creating public pressure. The public needs to become aware of the issue, to learn and understand the technical aspects of it, and to organize opposition. This is not necessarily a quick process.