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In June 2021 I tried entering the United States with a TN packet as an Engineer with a Bachelor of Computer Science. However, the officer denied me the TN statu

In June 2021 I tried entering the United States with a TN packet as an Engineer with a Bachelor of Computer Science. However, the officer denied me the TN status saying I need an Engineering, not Computer Science degree, to qualify for the Engineer TN status. Given the denial, in July 2021 the hiring company then applied through USCIS premium processing again for TN Engineer with my Computer Science degree and I was approved. I was let in at the border with my TN status without issue. In August 2021, I we back to Canada, and then upon re-entering the US with my TN I was sent to secondary given my previous denial on record. The officers basically rechecked my packet and asked so many questions about my previous denial, the officer then lets me in but states “you might not be so lucky with the next officer”. From what I understand they can take away my TN or even just deny me entry in the future based off the previous denial. I haven’t left the US since then, but want to visit Canada and come back. However, I’m terrified of the officer denying me entry based of my previous denial. What are my options here? My company’s lawyer basically said we just have to try and hope for the best. Thanks so much!

proberts 3y ago
I know. This is really stunning but true. CBP officers have the right to review the admissibility of TN applicants any time even if they have a TN approval notice. But there's a solution of sorts. Please email me separately because this will be very case-specific advice.
pj_mukh 3y ago
This happened to me too. Mind-boggling dumb. Had to switch out of TN (E2 in my case) for it to stop happening. Still spent 3 years going to secondary, “just because”.
- proberts 3y ago
  I'm sorry that I'm coming in late to this but for certain TN occupations, the outcome has less to do with the applicant's qualifications or the offered job and more to do with where the applicant applies. There are some airports and land crossings that are very good, that is, reasonable and fair.
ashconnor 3y ago
Also on TN status with a Computer Science degree. It appears to be luck-of-the-draw with the CBP officers. I also have two Software Engineering modules and my program was under the Faculty of Engineer which helps. I initially applied for L1B at Peace Bridge and was told that I needed to show the company I worked for was profitable (not true). We drove to Detroit-Windsor from Fort Erie as they told us there were no appointments until three weeks out (you don’t actually need an appointment I found out later). In Detroit I was denied my L1B because “the last year you worked abroad cannot count towards your acquisition of specialized knowledge” (also false). My opinion of CBP is you need to get the right one or have your lawyer on speed-dial so they can argue with the officer. Getting status at the border used to be seen as a pro for Canadians but more and more I’m seeing it as a con.
bonestamp2 3y ago
> However, the officer denied me the TN status saying I need an Engineering, not Computer Science degree, to qualify for the Engineer TN status. My wife had a similar thing happen (not a TN visa though). The immigration lawyers got to work and she was allowed to try again a couple weeks later. This time the officer agreed with the assessment that she was qualified for that visa type. The original officer had a very narrow perspective on how a certain job title was defined that was not inline with how most companies operate. If your company has a Canadian office, the lawyers could try getting you on an L visa. Or there's an E visa. Once you're on one of those visas then your company can sponsor a green card. Green cards are much more stable and they're easier to renew. Then citizenship if you want to go that far.
- Maciek416 3y ago
  I am not a lawyer. The transition from TN->GC is possible too under the right (narrow) circumstances. The big tradeoff is not risking travel while within the lifecycle of one TN term, and likely not being able to straddle a GC application across the boundaries of a TN renewal period at all. For some countries of birth, a TN term is not long enough to get through the GC pipeline. But for Canadians born in Canada, ones who have family willing to visit them instead of the other way around, it may be doable. Or for folks born in other countries which have no GC backlog or a short one. YMMV, but I have personally seen someone go L2->TN->GC. An unusual sequence but necessary given the particulars of that case.
  - ashconnor 3y ago
    It's totally possible to go from TN to GC but you won't be able to leave the United States from the point you file your I140/I485 until your Advanced Parole document turns up. You also can't get a new TN should you need one.
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      > you won't be able to leave the United States from the point you file your I140/I485 until your Advanced Parole document turns up How long does this take usually?
Maciek416 3y ago
Much like the other commenter, I learned to never ever do any of this stuff (ordinary travel or renewals) via land crossings. You can have a major trajectory change to your life on the whims of a border guard who is just having a bad day even if all of your ducks are lined up and perfectly documented by a large multinational. Bend over backwards to avoid land crossings until you can secure yourself a greencard.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  It doesn't really matter which crossing, IME, you may always encounter a power-tripping officer, and officers at each kind of entry port have the same power. I've been waved through no questions asked at land crossings, pulled into secondary and interviewed by 6 officers in pairs of 2 at an air crossing - and vice versa. Ultimately, admission is at the discretion of the officers unless you're a citizen. Even a green card holder can be denied re-entry on the basis that they 'abandoned their residency.'
  - Maciek416 3y ago
    Understood -- the big multinational I was working for employed an immigration law firm that tracked many such crossings, and they practically begged me not to try crossing by land based on their statistics (which suggested a higher probability of trouble in land crossings). I joined that statistic and learned to never take any chances with any part of this.
    - arcticbull 3y ago
      Very interesting, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!
      - tough 3y ago
        In a more practical sense look at it this way, at a land crossing they can just toss you over. game over. thats it. If you flew in on a plane, they have to get you deported which costs money and energy. Also they will assume you have more capital if you come by plane than land and thus ask less questions.
djmips 3y ago
My advice is to do the renewal without having to go to the border to face capricious judgements by under trained by all powerful border staff. It is possible to do the renewal early and via mail at a main immigration office. Now this information could be dated and please seek the advice of Mr. Roberts for current methods.
anorwell 3y ago
As a CS degree holder, I got two TN visas, both as a Computer Systems Analyst. This was ~10 years ago. I'm curious if something has changed to make Computer Systems Analyst positions or applications less frequent.
fuckyah 3y ago
[dead]
joshvm 3y ago
One option is to apply for Global Entry/NEXUS for Canada. You will have a single potentially miserable interview with a CBP officer who might bring your denial up because I'm sure they ask if you've been refused entry before. But if they're happy, you can enter the border without speaking to any agents (or a significantly reduced chance). Once cleared, on arrival, they snap a picture of your face at a kiosk and wave you through on an iPad (no passport involved). It works out to around 20 dollars a year plus your home country's admin fee. This doesn't solve your problem entirely but if you're legally allowed to be in the US then there's nothing underhand about taking advantage of the program. I think NEXUS might be easier, but when I did this as a European the border agent didn't really know what to do and was very grumpy that I didn't provide a US address to send my card which I was told by a different airport I didn't need. Once that was sorted, I haven't had any trouble since and it usually eliminates queueing at the border. If you're physically in the US, do it at an airport if you can get an appointment - they tend to be much more relaxed than the border guards.
- ashconnor 3y ago
  I was going to suggest this but I don't think it would prevent being pulled into secondary. Also, make sure you tell them you are on TN status or they will happily wave you through on B1 which you won't know until you download your updated I94.
  - nrmitchi 3y ago
    > Also, make sure you tell them you are on TN status or they will happily wave you through on B1 which you won't know until you download your updated I94. Bingo. I had the unfortunate experience of crossing after obtaining a renewal through USCIS, but before my original TN had expired. Despite giving them all of documentation, including the I-797A and new I94, the agent entered me based on my old TN, which expired.... a couple days later.
lannisterstark 3y ago
Cbp officers are sometimes.... dumbasses. One told me I had to get a Mexican visa if I were to come back since I was visiting so often. Mexican visa. To enter the United States.
sacnoradhq 3y ago
(CS/EE here who I guess won the womb lottery by being born in the States.) Holy crap, that's absurd and ill-informed on their part. There should be standards on the which accreditation of degrees to accept, not an exhaustive, under-maintained/-reviewed list of specific majors from specific institutions. The US can only stay competitive by making it easy enough for global talent to want to come here and want to stay. In the past ~15 years, the US has really lost its edge on being the melting pot and welcoming immigrants in a nation built and populated by immigrants (except for native peoples). PS: Not all CS/engineering degrees are created equal. There are some US institutions where their Computer Science (CS) Bachelor's degree is not accredited by a professional society while the Electrical Engineering (EE), Computer Engineering, etc. are. I switched majors to earn one that was ABET accredited. For new international students, it's vital to check the International Mutual Recognition Agreement (IMRA) for their degree to be sure it's widely recognized by the rest of the world. The cliche is a Russian physicist who ends up teaching US high school biology because of trouble with degree portability. https://amspub.abet.org/aps/name-search?searchType=program&keyword=computer%20science https://amspub.abet.org/aps/name-search?searchType=program&k...

proberts 3y ago

I know. This is really stunning but true. CBP officers have the right to review the admissibility of TN applicants any time even if they have a TN approval notice. But there's a solution of sorts. Please email me separately because this will be very case-specific advice.

pj_mukh 3y ago

This happened to me too. Mind-boggling dumb. Had to switch out of TN (E2 in my case) for it to stop happening. Still spent 3 years going to secondary, “just because”.

proberts 3y ago
I'm sorry that I'm coming in late to this but for certain TN occupations, the outcome has less to do with the applicant's qualifications or the offered job and more to do with where the applicant applies. There are some airports and land crossings that are very good, that is, reasonable and fair.

ashconnor 3y ago

Also on TN status with a Computer Science degree. It appears to be luck-of-the-draw with the CBP officers. I also have two Software Engineering modules and my program was under the Faculty of Engineer which helps. I initially applied for L1B at Peace Bridge and was told that I needed to show the company I worked for was profitable (not true). We drove to Detroit-Windsor from Fort Erie as they told us there were no appointments until three weeks out (you don’t actually need an appointment I found out later). In Detroit I was denied my L1B because “the last year you worked abroad cannot count towards your acquisition of specialized knowledge” (also false). My opinion of CBP is you need to get the right one or have your lawyer on speed-dial so they can argue with the officer. Getting status at the border used to be seen as a pro for Canadians but more and more I’m seeing it as a con.

bonestamp2 3y ago

> However, the officer denied me the TN status saying I need an Engineering, not Computer Science degree, to qualify for the Engineer TN status. My wife had a similar thing happen (not a TN visa though). The immigration lawyers got to work and she was allowed to try again a couple weeks later. This time the officer agreed with the assessment that she was qualified for that visa type. The original officer had a very narrow perspective on how a certain job title was defined that was not inline with how most companies operate. If your company has a Canadian office, the lawyers could try getting you on an L visa. Or there's an E visa. Once you're on one of those visas then your company can sponsor a green card. Green cards are much more stable and they're easier to renew. Then citizenship if you want to go that far.

Maciek416 3y ago
I am not a lawyer. The transition from TN->GC is possible too under the right (narrow) circumstances. The big tradeoff is not risking travel while within the lifecycle of one TN term, and likely not being able to straddle a GC application across the boundaries of a TN renewal period at all. For some countries of birth, a TN term is not long enough to get through the GC pipeline. But for Canadians born in Canada, ones who have family willing to visit them instead of the other way around, it may be doable. Or for folks born in other countries which have no GC backlog or a short one. YMMV, but I have personally seen someone go L2->TN->GC. An unusual sequence but necessary given the particulars of that case.
- ashconnor 3y ago
  It's totally possible to go from TN to GC but you won't be able to leave the United States from the point you file your I140/I485 until your Advanced Parole document turns up. You also can't get a new TN should you need one.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    > you won't be able to leave the United States from the point you file your I140/I485 until your Advanced Parole document turns up How long does this take usually?

Maciek416 3y ago

Much like the other commenter, I learned to never ever do any of this stuff (ordinary travel or renewals) via land crossings. You can have a major trajectory change to your life on the whims of a border guard who is just having a bad day even if all of your ducks are lined up and perfectly documented by a large multinational. Bend over backwards to avoid land crossings until you can secure yourself a greencard.

arcticbull 3y ago
It doesn't really matter which crossing, IME, you may always encounter a power-tripping officer, and officers at each kind of entry port have the same power. I've been waved through no questions asked at land crossings, pulled into secondary and interviewed by 6 officers in pairs of 2 at an air crossing - and vice versa. Ultimately, admission is at the discretion of the officers unless you're a citizen. Even a green card holder can be denied re-entry on the basis that they 'abandoned their residency.'
- Maciek416 3y ago
  Understood -- the big multinational I was working for employed an immigration law firm that tracked many such crossings, and they practically begged me not to try crossing by land based on their statistics (which suggested a higher probability of trouble in land crossings). I joined that statistic and learned to never take any chances with any part of this.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    Very interesting, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!
    - tough 3y ago
      In a more practical sense look at it this way, at a land crossing they can just toss you over. game over. thats it. If you flew in on a plane, they have to get you deported which costs money and energy. Also they will assume you have more capital if you come by plane than land and thus ask less questions.

djmips 3y ago

My advice is to do the renewal without having to go to the border to face capricious judgements by under trained by all powerful border staff. It is possible to do the renewal early and via mail at a main immigration office. Now this information could be dated and please seek the advice of Mr. Roberts for current methods.

anorwell 3y ago

As a CS degree holder, I got two TN visas, both as a Computer Systems Analyst. This was ~10 years ago. I'm curious if something has changed to make Computer Systems Analyst positions or applications less frequent.

fuckyah 3y ago

[dead]

joshvm 3y ago

One option is to apply for Global Entry/NEXUS for Canada. You will have a single potentially miserable interview with a CBP officer who might bring your denial up because I'm sure they ask if you've been refused entry before. But if they're happy, you can enter the border without speaking to any agents (or a significantly reduced chance). Once cleared, on arrival, they snap a picture of your face at a kiosk and wave you through on an iPad (no passport involved). It works out to around 20 dollars a year plus your home country's admin fee. This doesn't solve your problem entirely but if you're legally allowed to be in the US then there's nothing underhand about taking advantage of the program. I think NEXUS might be easier, but when I did this as a European the border agent didn't really know what to do and was very grumpy that I didn't provide a US address to send my card which I was told by a different airport I didn't need. Once that was sorted, I haven't had any trouble since and it usually eliminates queueing at the border. If you're physically in the US, do it at an airport if you can get an appointment - they tend to be much more relaxed than the border guards.

ashconnor 3y ago
I was going to suggest this but I don't think it would prevent being pulled into secondary. Also, make sure you tell them you are on TN status or they will happily wave you through on B1 which you won't know until you download your updated I94.
- nrmitchi 3y ago
  > Also, make sure you tell them you are on TN status or they will happily wave you through on B1 which you won't know until you download your updated I94. Bingo. I had the unfortunate experience of crossing after obtaining a renewal through USCIS, but before my original TN had expired. Despite giving them all of documentation, including the I-797A and new I94, the agent entered me based on my old TN, which expired.... a couple days later.

lannisterstark 3y ago

Cbp officers are sometimes.... dumbasses. One told me I had to get a Mexican visa if I were to come back since I was visiting so often. Mexican visa. To enter the United States.

sacnoradhq 3y ago

(CS/EE here who I guess won the womb lottery by being born in the States.) Holy crap, that's absurd and ill-informed on their part. There should be standards on the which accreditation of degrees to accept, not an exhaustive, under-maintained/-reviewed list of specific majors from specific institutions. The US can only stay competitive by making it easy enough for global talent to want to come here and want to stay. In the past ~15 years, the US has really lost its edge on being the melting pot and welcoming immigrants in a nation built and populated by immigrants (except for native peoples). PS: Not all CS/engineering degrees are created equal. There are some US institutions where their Computer Science (CS) Bachelor's degree is not accredited by a professional society while the Electrical Engineering (EE), Computer Engineering, etc. are. I switched majors to earn one that was ABET accredited. For new international students, it's vital to check the International Mutual Recognition Agreement (IMRA) for their degree to be sure it's widely recognized by the rest of the world. The cliche is a Russian physicist who ends up teaching US high school biology because of trouble with degree portability. https://amspub.abet.org/aps/name-search?searchType=program&keyword=computer%20science https://amspub.abet.org/aps/name-search?searchType=program&k...