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I feel like I’m being gaslit every time I hear how great the economy is. I’m spending so much more for basic essentials like food, gas, and rent that there isn

I feel like I’m being gaslit every time I hear how great the economy is. I’m spending so much more for basic essentials like food, gas, and rent that there isn’t nearly as much disposable income and money left to save and invest as there was a few years ago. I’ve even received a few pay raises in that time, but they haven’t come close to keeping up with inflation. Maybe the people that think it’s a good economy don’t have kids to feed?

Eumenes 3y ago
Prob because this is financial news for wall street and boglehead types, not your average Joe. But I agree - I feel the press is very optimistic about things w/o going deeper into the systemic problems.
- lockhouse 3y ago
  What blows my mind is that Joe Biden and his administration have been talking about “Bidenomics” and touting the current economy like it’s a strength for him going into reelection instead of a liability. I just can’t wrap my head around that. Are we living in the same America? It really feels like I’m being gaslit.
  - jazzyjackson 3y ago
    The party in 1984 was proud to increase chocolate rations.
  - tekla 3y ago
    Because in every metric the economy is doing well.
    - lockhouse 3y ago
      Those metrics are disconnected from middle class reality.
      - tekla 3y ago
        What metrics are you looking at for your claims
        lockhouse 3y ago
        The ones that matter to me personally. Namely my paycheck, price stickers, my bills, and my bank account. The rest of the metrics are mostly for economists and rich people.
        knewter 3y ago
        This is my experience and that of everyone I talk to in my daily life. It's like a very weird bubble on HN and in the media, where people are ignoring things like "my tracked expenses for groceries are 60% higher than they were in 2019, and my restaurant budget has grown though I go out to eat 1/3 as much" I don't have to guess about these things, I have receipts. Still, everyone here and on the news tells me things are great!
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Bogleheads would not need financial news. Their whole thing is ignoring news and just buying and holding as long as possible.
prmph 3y ago
It being a "good" economy has little to do with your purchasing power or real income. That's the fatal flaw of pure capitalism: So long as economy activity is increasing, everything is good. Doesn't matter if the benefits go to 1% of the population. Doesn't matter is it is at the expense of people's health or solvency. From a capitalist standpoint, more people in debt is good because it creates money out of thin air [1]. More people sick is good because that increases the size of the health market, et cetera. [1] https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/how-is-money-created https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/how-is-money-crea...
- klipt 3y ago
  > More people sick is good because that increases the size of the health market, et cetera. See the Parable of the Broken Window, 1850.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> feel like I’m being gaslit every time I hear how great the economy is The economy is getting healthier, but it was recently very sick. Many Americans are better off today than they were last year, but worse off than they were in 2020. This is best illustrated by a chart of real earnings [1]. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
- kasey_junk 3y ago
  Minor nit, the wage explosion was _wild_. Basically we moved a bunch of workers that were going to retire in the next ~5 years into a single year and stomped on immigration. Suggesting that it coming off of that to a more normal growth pattern makes the economy very sick seems like a mischaracterization.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Suggesting that it coming off of that to a more normal growth pattern makes the economy very sick seems like a mischaracterization Sorry if I was unclear. The sickness was the literal pandemic. The economy isn't currently sick, but it's not as robust as it was in recent memory. Many Americans can reasonably look at the data, see everyone remarking at the economy's unexpected strength, find themselves in no better condition than they were half a decade ago, and feel tempted to call shenanigans on the whole thing.
kasey_junk 3y ago
I think one of the hard parts about macro economic data is it can be very divorced from individuals experiences precisely because it takes into account all the highs and lows. When all the high inflation stuff was coming out I was baffled. My home expenses were essentially flat. And coming off of covid my savings and investments were stacked. But I wasn’t trying to buy a car and my mortgage was pre rate hikes, and I rarely drive and am in good health. It’s entirely possible there wasn’t any inflation for me.
- lockhouse 3y ago
  The grocery store and the gas pumps are where I feel inflation the most.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Are you sure it is not your state’s gas taxes? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GASREGCOVW https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GASREGCOVW Gas prices are not any higher than they were throughout the 2010s.
    - lockhouse 3y ago
      Gas prices under Biden are definitely higher than at any point during Trump's Presidency. There were points where gas was expensive during the "Dubya" and Obama administrations too. https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2023/03/08/average-gasoline-prices-under-the-past-four-presidents/?sh=1f99d39f64e6 https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2023/03/08/average-gaso...
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - fastaguy88 3y ago
      The fed chart is adjusted for inflation, so the numbers at the pump are higher. Do you have any reason to believe that gas taxes have increased in the past decade? The federal tax has not increased since 1993, and is not indexed for inflation.

Eumenes 3y ago

Prob because this is financial news for wall street and boglehead types, not your average Joe. But I agree - I feel the press is very optimistic about things w/o going deeper into the systemic problems.

lockhouse 3y ago
What blows my mind is that Joe Biden and his administration have been talking about “Bidenomics” and touting the current economy like it’s a strength for him going into reelection instead of a liability. I just can’t wrap my head around that. Are we living in the same America? It really feels like I’m being gaslit.
- jazzyjackson 3y ago
  The party in 1984 was proud to increase chocolate rations.
- tekla 3y ago
  Because in every metric the economy is doing well.
  - lockhouse 3y ago
    Those metrics are disconnected from middle class reality.
    - tekla 3y ago
      What metrics are you looking at for your claims
      - lockhouse 3y ago
        The ones that matter to me personally. Namely my paycheck, price stickers, my bills, and my bank account. The rest of the metrics are mostly for economists and rich people.
        knewter 3y ago
        This is my experience and that of everyone I talk to in my daily life. It's like a very weird bubble on HN and in the media, where people are ignoring things like "my tracked expenses for groceries are 60% higher than they were in 2019, and my restaurant budget has grown though I go out to eat 1/3 as much" I don't have to guess about these things, I have receipts. Still, everyone here and on the news tells me things are great!
lotsofpulp 3y ago
Bogleheads would not need financial news. Their whole thing is ignoring news and just buying and holding as long as possible.

prmph 3y ago

It being a "good" economy has little to do with your purchasing power or real income. That's the fatal flaw of pure capitalism: So long as economy activity is increasing, everything is good. Doesn't matter if the benefits go to 1% of the population. Doesn't matter is it is at the expense of people's health or solvency. From a capitalist standpoint, more people in debt is good because it creates money out of thin air [1]. More people sick is good because that increases the size of the health market, et cetera. [1] https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/how-is-money-created https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/how-is-money-crea...

klipt 3y ago
> More people sick is good because that increases the size of the health market, et cetera. See the Parable of the Broken Window, 1850.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> feel like I’m being gaslit every time I hear how great the economy is The economy is getting healthier, but it was recently very sick. Many Americans are better off today than they were last year, but worse off than they were in 2020. This is best illustrated by a chart of real earnings [1]. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q

kasey_junk 3y ago
Minor nit, the wage explosion was _wild_. Basically we moved a bunch of workers that were going to retire in the next ~5 years into a single year and stomped on immigration. Suggesting that it coming off of that to a more normal growth pattern makes the economy very sick seems like a mischaracterization.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Suggesting that it coming off of that to a more normal growth pattern makes the economy very sick seems like a mischaracterization Sorry if I was unclear. The sickness was the literal pandemic. The economy isn't currently sick, but it's not as robust as it was in recent memory. Many Americans can reasonably look at the data, see everyone remarking at the economy's unexpected strength, find themselves in no better condition than they were half a decade ago, and feel tempted to call shenanigans on the whole thing.

kasey_junk 3y ago

I think one of the hard parts about macro economic data is it can be very divorced from individuals experiences precisely because it takes into account all the highs and lows. When all the high inflation stuff was coming out I was baffled. My home expenses were essentially flat. And coming off of covid my savings and investments were stacked. But I wasn’t trying to buy a car and my mortgage was pre rate hikes, and I rarely drive and am in good health. It’s entirely possible there wasn’t any inflation for me.

lockhouse 3y ago
The grocery store and the gas pumps are where I feel inflation the most.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Are you sure it is not your state’s gas taxes? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GASREGCOVW https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GASREGCOVW Gas prices are not any higher than they were throughout the 2010s.
  - lockhouse 3y ago
    Gas prices under Biden are definitely higher than at any point during Trump's Presidency. There were points where gas was expensive during the "Dubya" and Obama administrations too. https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2023/03/08/average-gasoline-prices-under-the-past-four-presidents/?sh=1f99d39f64e6 https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2023/03/08/average-gaso...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - fastaguy88 3y ago
    The fed chart is adjusted for inflation, so the numbers at the pump are higher. Do you have any reason to believe that gas taxes have increased in the past decade? The federal tax has not increased since 1993, and is not indexed for inflation.