13 ms·

summary: 1. it's still "visa-free", but increasingly countries are making that shit by requiring an "electronic travel authority" which is not technically a vi

summary: 1. it's still "visa-free", but increasingly countries are making that shit by requiring an "electronic travel authority" which is not technically a visa but is a bit of imaginary paper you get in exchange for money (e.g. Australia and the US) 2. the US already requires EU citizens to do this exact fucking thing to enter the US: https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/ https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/ 3. the US refused to even grant visa free access at all to some EU citizens (those from Romania and Bulgaria): https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/eu-visa-reciprocity-with-us-and-canada/ https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/eu-visa-reciprocity-wi... it is unfortunate that ~2003 may end up being a high point for ease of travel for citizens of rich countries

TechBro8615 3y ago
2003? How about pre-1920 when passports weren't even required to enter a country?
- rconti 3y ago
  I'll trade a slightly slower border crossing for faster trains and airplanes.
  - TechBro8615 3y ago
    Fair enough. There is a certain romance to crossing the atlantic by ship, though. That's been on my bucket list for a while - IIRC a ticket is on the order of $1-2k for a weeklong journey from UK to US.
    - atlasunshrugged 3y ago
      Really? That seems like a very reasonable cost! Any idea where you book something like that?
      - hervature 3y ago
        Any major cruise line has both trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific cruises. You'll have to book two voyages for a round trip or fly for one of the legs.
        CydeWeys 3y ago
        The round trip idea is unlikely to work well unless you're willing to wait awhile as the cruise ships are repositioning to handle specific seasons (e.g. Northern Europe in the summer, the Caribbean in the winter). The exception is the Queen Mary II, which is an ocean liner that still does regular trans-Atlantics.
        bluGill 3y ago
        If you can afford 2 weeks off for a round trip, you should really take at least a week in the country to arrive at to see it. Cruises are nice, but you don't see the culture of the places you go. Either fly back, or take more than a two weeks. I recommend fly back, the one way trip is a once in a lifetime thing, but the return trip seems like it would be repetitive (having taken several cruises, though none trans ocean) Of course both Europe and North America are large continents with a lot more to see than you can do in a week, but few of us have the budget to be a world traveler for a few decades to see everything.
        dmoy 3y ago
        > Either fly back, or take more than a two weeks. Right, the point is it might be six months, since a lot of cruise lines will do only one crossing for northern/southern hemisphere summer toggling. e.g. here in Seattle the cruise ships that go between here and Alaska make a single trip down to Australia or somewhere in the fall, and then don't come back for half a year. So yes, like you said - probably fly back.
        atlasunshrugged 3y ago
        Ah okay, I guess I was thinking that OP was talking about a more traditional sailing ship or something rather than a cruise ship! I've lived in Europe a few times and really enjoyed it but going across the Atlantic by boat is on the bucket list
    - soderfoo 3y ago
      The Queen Mary 2 sails from Southampton to NYC [0]. I think you can get a ticket for less than $1k,though you'd probably be cramped with no window. [0] https://www.cunard.com/en-gb/find-a-cruise/M509/M509 https://www.cunard.com/en-gb/find-a-cruise/M509/M509
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Most trains today actually run slower than their 1920 version on the same track. We invented high speed rail in the 1960s which of course goes much faster, but most trains are not high speed and most operators of regular lines (including subways) have slowed the trains down.
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      They run a lot more smoother nowadays though due to continuous welded rail.
      - bluGill 3y ago
        Despite smoother rail, computer dispatching, and computer safety controls: the trains are still running slower.
    - tim333 3y ago
      My brief googling suggests this is not so in the UK at any rate. >Some trains, such as the famous "Flying Scotsman" in the United Kingdom, were able to reach speeds of up to around 90 miles per hour (145 kilometers per hour). However, this was not the norm and most trains had a top speed of around 50-60 miles per hour They are quicker now - 130mph, 80 mph is normal
sgt 3y ago
I have used ESTA. Very simple and worked great for me. And the fee is like 3-4 coffees. Not bad.
- arrrg 3y ago
  Felt effortless to me, too, but I would still call it a visa. As instructed on the website we didn’t print anything out, so we just brought our passports and immigration was completely without any problems in Miami. Our passports also weren’t stamped as seems to be common now. When we got into an immigration check near White Sands national park (closed road and checkpoint next to the road) the guards checking us were nightly confused that our passports weren’t stamped and we didn’t have a visa or any kind of printed documentation. And we were confused that we needed any of that? One guard went to check on us with his computer, I guess, and everything seems to have checked out. So we didn’t need anything after all, it just seems that when you get into an immigration check those checking you might prefer to not go check with a computer, so printed documentation of some kind can get you going faster. (The guard also told me that we should have printed out documentation that we paid for ESTA?! Which seems confusing to me since presumably if we didn’t have paid we wouldn’t have been let in.)
  - sgt 3y ago
    Oh yeah, I guess (like with many systems) there are tons of edge cases and pit falls one can fall into. I recall my plane ticket having a completely different middle name than my passport, and TSA actually asked me about that. Got real worried for a second. This was back in 2014 entering the US via Atlanta.
  - tim333 3y ago
    Normal visas tend to involve far more bs and expense than ESTAs.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  Yes it is sort of simple. But you need to be aware of it, remember it, fill it in time (some processing can take 2 weeks), carry reference number. I'm somewhat organised, but didn't really knew I need for for AU. Filled while checking in, but got it 8 minutes after gates closed. Edit: kinda feel should be integrated with flight booking. The amount of bureaucracy, esp. during covid era, travelling across many countries, with a big party - it's maddening.
pkaye 3y ago
> the US refused to even grant visa free access at all to some EU citizens (those from Romania and Bulgaria) Are Romania and Bulgaria part of the Schengen Area?
- filoleg 3y ago
  Nope, they are not, but they are bound to eventually join as they are obligated to by their Treaties of Accession[0]. Seems like the grandparent comment just didn't bother checking their facts first and jumped the gun on blaming the US for this, while the US doesn't really have anything to do with it. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - kyriakos 3y ago
    It's not actually a schengen issue https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/fr/MEMO_16_4484 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/fr/MEMO_1... Technically any country of which citizens are allowed visa free entry to eu should reciprocate. Of course this is doesn't seem to apply in practice.
  - pkaye 3y ago
    To be added into the visa waiver program, there are a couple criteria that countries need to meet. Things like reporting lost or stolen passports through INTERPOL. Or accepting repatriation of their citizens that are ordered to be removed from the US. https://www.dhs.gov/visa-waiver-program https://www.dhs.gov/visa-waiver-program I think last I heard Romania meets all requirements except that B visa refusal rates which is still >3%. I think once Romania is added to Schengen Area the refusal rate should drop a lot since many of those individuals can have an easier time moving to other Schengen Area countries for economic reasons.
    - Symbiote 3y ago
      Romania being in the Schengen area makes absolutely no difference to Romanians' rights to work, study or live in other European Union countries.
chrisco255 3y ago
You'd want to go back to early 2001, as the BS and red tape ramped up dramatically after 9/11.
- soderfoo 3y ago
  I'm nostalgic for the pre-9/11 flying experience well except for one thing: anyone being allowed to wait at the gate. Imagine the mad house if friends and family could accompany a traveler to the gate, or wait for their loved one to arrive?
kyriakos 3y ago
3. And Cyprus. Visiting US requires an embassy appointment for interview that costs 120USD or more now. Takes up to 2 weeks so quick trips are out of the question.
dheera 3y ago
The annoying thing is when you want to visit the EU accidentally. Like if you're in Switzerland and you just feel like hopping on a train to Italy on a whim. You used to be able to do that, now you need a pre-approval I suppose.
- raverbashing 3y ago
  They're both in Schengen, so you just do that
  - dheera 3y ago
    US passports don't need Shenanigan visa for Switzerland. The weird thing is that all the bordering countries need a pre-approval now but not Switzerland itself.
    - raverbashing 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - reaperducer 3y ago
        [flagged]
- regularjack 3y ago
  Like if you're in Mexico and you just feel like hoping on a train to the US on a whim.
  - dheera 3y ago
    If there were trains I'd totally do that. I absolutely love living on border regions and spending weekends in another country where it's possible and cheap.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    Unironically the US should be pushing very very hard to be best buds with Mexico and help it become a stable state that does a lot of our manufacturing. Want to make illegal immigration less of a problem? Help Mexico become a country you want to live in.

TechBro8615 3y ago

2003? How about pre-1920 when passports weren't even required to enter a country?

rconti 3y ago
I'll trade a slightly slower border crossing for faster trains and airplanes.
- TechBro8615 3y ago
  Fair enough. There is a certain romance to crossing the atlantic by ship, though. That's been on my bucket list for a while - IIRC a ticket is on the order of $1-2k for a weeklong journey from UK to US.
  - atlasunshrugged 3y ago
    Really? That seems like a very reasonable cost! Any idea where you book something like that?
    - hervature 3y ago
      Any major cruise line has both trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific cruises. You'll have to book two voyages for a round trip or fly for one of the legs.
      - CydeWeys 3y ago
        The round trip idea is unlikely to work well unless you're willing to wait awhile as the cruise ships are repositioning to handle specific seasons (e.g. Northern Europe in the summer, the Caribbean in the winter). The exception is the Queen Mary II, which is an ocean liner that still does regular trans-Atlantics.
        bluGill 3y ago
        If you can afford 2 weeks off for a round trip, you should really take at least a week in the country to arrive at to see it. Cruises are nice, but you don't see the culture of the places you go. Either fly back, or take more than a two weeks. I recommend fly back, the one way trip is a once in a lifetime thing, but the return trip seems like it would be repetitive (having taken several cruises, though none trans ocean) Of course both Europe and North America are large continents with a lot more to see than you can do in a week, but few of us have the budget to be a world traveler for a few decades to see everything.
        dmoy 3y ago
        > Either fly back, or take more than a two weeks. Right, the point is it might be six months, since a lot of cruise lines will do only one crossing for northern/southern hemisphere summer toggling. e.g. here in Seattle the cruise ships that go between here and Alaska make a single trip down to Australia or somewhere in the fall, and then don't come back for half a year. So yes, like you said - probably fly back.
        atlasunshrugged 3y ago
        Ah okay, I guess I was thinking that OP was talking about a more traditional sailing ship or something rather than a cruise ship! I've lived in Europe a few times and really enjoyed it but going across the Atlantic by boat is on the bucket list
  - soderfoo 3y ago
    The Queen Mary 2 sails from Southampton to NYC [0]. I think you can get a ticket for less than $1k,though you'd probably be cramped with no window. [0] https://www.cunard.com/en-gb/find-a-cruise/M509/M509 https://www.cunard.com/en-gb/find-a-cruise/M509/M509
- bluGill 3y ago
  Most trains today actually run slower than their 1920 version on the same track. We invented high speed rail in the 1960s which of course goes much faster, but most trains are not high speed and most operators of regular lines (including subways) have slowed the trains down.
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    They run a lot more smoother nowadays though due to continuous welded rail.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      Despite smoother rail, computer dispatching, and computer safety controls: the trains are still running slower.
  - tim333 3y ago
    My brief googling suggests this is not so in the UK at any rate. >Some trains, such as the famous "Flying Scotsman" in the United Kingdom, were able to reach speeds of up to around 90 miles per hour (145 kilometers per hour). However, this was not the norm and most trains had a top speed of around 50-60 miles per hour They are quicker now - 130mph, 80 mph is normal

sgt 3y ago

I have used ESTA. Very simple and worked great for me. And the fee is like 3-4 coffees. Not bad.

arrrg 3y ago
Felt effortless to me, too, but I would still call it a visa. As instructed on the website we didn’t print anything out, so we just brought our passports and immigration was completely without any problems in Miami. Our passports also weren’t stamped as seems to be common now. When we got into an immigration check near White Sands national park (closed road and checkpoint next to the road) the guards checking us were nightly confused that our passports weren’t stamped and we didn’t have a visa or any kind of printed documentation. And we were confused that we needed any of that? One guard went to check on us with his computer, I guess, and everything seems to have checked out. So we didn’t need anything after all, it just seems that when you get into an immigration check those checking you might prefer to not go check with a computer, so printed documentation of some kind can get you going faster. (The guard also told me that we should have printed out documentation that we paid for ESTA?! Which seems confusing to me since presumably if we didn’t have paid we wouldn’t have been let in.)
- sgt 3y ago
  Oh yeah, I guess (like with many systems) there are tons of edge cases and pit falls one can fall into. I recall my plane ticket having a completely different middle name than my passport, and TSA actually asked me about that. Got real worried for a second. This was back in 2014 entering the US via Atlanta.
- tim333 3y ago
  Normal visas tend to involve far more bs and expense than ESTAs.
dzhiurgis 3y ago
Yes it is sort of simple. But you need to be aware of it, remember it, fill it in time (some processing can take 2 weeks), carry reference number. I'm somewhat organised, but didn't really knew I need for for AU. Filled while checking in, but got it 8 minutes after gates closed. Edit: kinda feel should be integrated with flight booking. The amount of bureaucracy, esp. during covid era, travelling across many countries, with a big party - it's maddening.

pkaye 3y ago

> the US refused to even grant visa free access at all to some EU citizens (those from Romania and Bulgaria) Are Romania and Bulgaria part of the Schengen Area?

filoleg 3y ago
Nope, they are not, but they are bound to eventually join as they are obligated to by their Treaties of Accession[0]. Seems like the grandparent comment just didn't bother checking their facts first and jumped the gun on blaming the US for this, while the US doesn't really have anything to do with it. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- kyriakos 3y ago
  It's not actually a schengen issue https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/fr/MEMO_16_4484 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/fr/MEMO_1... Technically any country of which citizens are allowed visa free entry to eu should reciprocate. Of course this is doesn't seem to apply in practice.
- pkaye 3y ago
  To be added into the visa waiver program, there are a couple criteria that countries need to meet. Things like reporting lost or stolen passports through INTERPOL. Or accepting repatriation of their citizens that are ordered to be removed from the US. https://www.dhs.gov/visa-waiver-program https://www.dhs.gov/visa-waiver-program I think last I heard Romania meets all requirements except that B visa refusal rates which is still >3%. I think once Romania is added to Schengen Area the refusal rate should drop a lot since many of those individuals can have an easier time moving to other Schengen Area countries for economic reasons.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    Romania being in the Schengen area makes absolutely no difference to Romanians' rights to work, study or live in other European Union countries.

chrisco255 3y ago

You'd want to go back to early 2001, as the BS and red tape ramped up dramatically after 9/11.

soderfoo 3y ago
I'm nostalgic for the pre-9/11 flying experience well except for one thing: anyone being allowed to wait at the gate. Imagine the mad house if friends and family could accompany a traveler to the gate, or wait for their loved one to arrive?

kyriakos 3y ago

3. And Cyprus. Visiting US requires an embassy appointment for interview that costs 120USD or more now. Takes up to 2 weeks so quick trips are out of the question.

dheera 3y ago

The annoying thing is when you want to visit the EU accidentally. Like if you're in Switzerland and you just feel like hopping on a train to Italy on a whim. You used to be able to do that, now you need a pre-approval I suppose.

raverbashing 3y ago
They're both in Schengen, so you just do that
- dheera 3y ago
  US passports don't need Shenanigan visa for Switzerland. The weird thing is that all the bordering countries need a pre-approval now but not Switzerland itself.
  - raverbashing 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - reaperducer 3y ago
      [flagged]
regularjack 3y ago
Like if you're in Mexico and you just feel like hoping on a train to the US on a whim.
- dheera 3y ago
  If there were trains I'd totally do that. I absolutely love living on border regions and spending weekends in another country where it's possible and cheap.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  Unironically the US should be pushing very very hard to be best buds with Mexico and help it become a stable state that does a lot of our manufacturing. Want to make illegal immigration less of a problem? Help Mexico become a country you want to live in.