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This doesn't meaningfully diminish the problem here: the police in the US are heavily armed, and are trained to manufacture pretext for violence (cf. any number

This doesn't meaningfully diminish the problem here: the police in the US are heavily armed, and are trained to manufacture pretext for violence (cf. any number of videos where police shout "stop resisting" or "hands up" repeatedly to people who are already complying). Ordinary people, even ones who might hurt you, are aware that doing so comes with the threat of the law. The police are the law, and as such are emboldened towards violence when antagonized in ways that the ordinary public is not.

yuliyp 3y ago
Well ordinary people have an option of just walking away that police officers generally have a duty not to, meaning they put themselves into tense situations in the course of doing their jobs.
- woodruffw 3y ago
  This is a common misconception: under the Public Duty doctrine, the police have no obligation to intervene in any particular public instance of crime[1]. Their duty to the public is a “general” one, which makes it an extremely weak duty. [1]: https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/police-civil-liability-failure-protect-public-duty-doctrine https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/police-c...
  - seanw444 3y ago
    As well as being consistently reaffirmed by various courts that the police have no constitutional duty to protect the public. Only the people in their immediate custody.
    - woodruffw 3y ago
      That duty to protect in custody is also frequently not respected[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima
- usednet 3y ago
  Wasn’t it also in New York where an on-duty cop watched a guy get stabbed on the subway from a few feet away and actively chose to do nothing without punishment?
- tehwebguy 3y ago
  This might sound like common sense but the opposite is more true. Police may walk away from just about any interaction with the public, even if they know that death or serious injury will happen unless they intervene (though there may be states that have legislated exceptions to this). Most working people may be fired for not engaging a potential customer, client, vendor or someone else they’d normally interact with as part of their job. They can even be fired for simply not being friendly enough in one of these interactions.
- ROTMetro 3y ago
  Hot take: Community policing should be separate from warrant enforcement. A huge part of police's 'fear' is from not knowing who in any interaction is at risk of being incarcerated for 20 years and has an outstanding warrant and might therefor do whatever it takes to avoid that. Community policing should be about community policing and needs to be de-escalated. Warrant enforcement should be warrant enforcement. This would make police less fearful and less justified in their hostility.
unsupp0rted 3y ago
Also ordinary people can't get away with having used deadly violence after their pretext is thrown out of court. For police it's a regular Tuesday, and then back to work on Wednesday. And I'm someone who respects the police and believes in the rule of law. But reality is reality.
ipaddr 3y ago
They also take part in community pickup games and are trained to interact with the community. 99% have never fired a weapon in the line of duty. There are many more people who would kill you because they don't care or think they will be caught or forgot it all in the moment. You would be surprised how little your life means when someone needs a fix or a lot of money is available. What we have here is the tv effect. Every cop show features a bad cop. Cop murdering black guy results in huge protests where 10 times more people get murdered by other protestors. Your chances of getting killed at the protest is much greater than being murdered by the cops who everyone is protesting against
- woodruffw 3y ago
  > 99% have never fired a weapon in the line of duty. This is a misleading fixation: the police can beat, brutalize, and kill people without ever firing a gun. In fact, mistreatment at the hands of the police is probably overwhelmingly physical in nature. The fact that your community has sporty cops does not meaningfully change this truth. By and large, the police in the US are subject to extremely positive media portrayals. I, like millions of other Americans, grew up watching Law and Order (the good one, not SVU); the police in these shows are shown, with sparingly few exceptions, to be virtuous public servants. Such positive fictionalized portrayals have been instrumental in the public's overall opinion of policing[1], even through real-world evidence to the contrary. [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20230609092852/https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/197060.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20230609092852/https://www.ojp.g...

yuliyp 3y ago

Well ordinary people have an option of just walking away that police officers generally have a duty not to, meaning they put themselves into tense situations in the course of doing their jobs.

woodruffw 3y ago
This is a common misconception: under the Public Duty doctrine, the police have no obligation to intervene in any particular public instance of crime[1]. Their duty to the public is a “general” one, which makes it an extremely weak duty. [1]: https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/police-civil-liability-failure-protect-public-duty-doctrine https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/police-c...
- seanw444 3y ago
  As well as being consistently reaffirmed by various courts that the police have no constitutional duty to protect the public. Only the people in their immediate custody.
  - woodruffw 3y ago
    That duty to protect in custody is also frequently not respected[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima
usednet 3y ago
Wasn’t it also in New York where an on-duty cop watched a guy get stabbed on the subway from a few feet away and actively chose to do nothing without punishment?
tehwebguy 3y ago
This might sound like common sense but the opposite is more true. Police may walk away from just about any interaction with the public, even if they know that death or serious injury will happen unless they intervene (though there may be states that have legislated exceptions to this). Most working people may be fired for not engaging a potential customer, client, vendor or someone else they’d normally interact with as part of their job. They can even be fired for simply not being friendly enough in one of these interactions.
ROTMetro 3y ago
Hot take: Community policing should be separate from warrant enforcement. A huge part of police's 'fear' is from not knowing who in any interaction is at risk of being incarcerated for 20 years and has an outstanding warrant and might therefor do whatever it takes to avoid that. Community policing should be about community policing and needs to be de-escalated. Warrant enforcement should be warrant enforcement. This would make police less fearful and less justified in their hostility.

unsupp0rted 3y ago

Also ordinary people can't get away with having used deadly violence after their pretext is thrown out of court. For police it's a regular Tuesday, and then back to work on Wednesday. And I'm someone who respects the police and believes in the rule of law. But reality is reality.

ipaddr 3y ago

They also take part in community pickup games and are trained to interact with the community. 99% have never fired a weapon in the line of duty. There are many more people who would kill you because they don't care or think they will be caught or forgot it all in the moment. You would be surprised how little your life means when someone needs a fix or a lot of money is available. What we have here is the tv effect. Every cop show features a bad cop. Cop murdering black guy results in huge protests where 10 times more people get murdered by other protestors. Your chances of getting killed at the protest is much greater than being murdered by the cops who everyone is protesting against

woodruffw 3y ago
> 99% have never fired a weapon in the line of duty. This is a misleading fixation: the police can beat, brutalize, and kill people without ever firing a gun. In fact, mistreatment at the hands of the police is probably overwhelmingly physical in nature. The fact that your community has sporty cops does not meaningfully change this truth. By and large, the police in the US are subject to extremely positive media portrayals. I, like millions of other Americans, grew up watching Law and Order (the good one, not SVU); the police in these shows are shown, with sparingly few exceptions, to be virtuous public servants. Such positive fictionalized portrayals have been instrumental in the public's overall opinion of policing[1], even through real-world evidence to the contrary. [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20230609092852/https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/197060.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20230609092852/https://www.ojp.g...