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The dream of esim is great. The reality not so much. I tried it a few months ago and found: * Scanning the QR code to install the esim requires internet - i

The dream of esim is great. The reality not so much. I tried it a few months ago and found: * Scanning the QR code to install the esim requires internet - it can't activate the sim card to get internet unless it already has internet. Seems like a bit of an oversight! * Once provisioned, the mobile network doesn't actually activate your account for a few hours. Kinda takes away the benefit of 'one click and go'. * The phone is hardcoded to only support 4G via esim, although the phone itself supports 5G if you use a physical sim on the same mobile network. Nobody on the forums has managed to make it work. * If you damage the phone, there is no way to transfer the esim to a new phone. I assumed it would transfer over automatically as part of backup/restore, either via cable or cloud backup, but no. * The mobile network has no ability to transfer the sim over either. Apparently their software doesn't allow it. The only way is to transfer to a physical sim, wait for it to arrive, then mark the physical sim as lost, and then reorder an esim. Great - that takes 4 days, during which you have no service. Most of these flaws are problems with the mobile network's policies and processes. But some are with the esim spec (not allowing backup/restore, not having enough info in the QR code to connect to a network without internet). Overall, esims have so far caused me hours of frustration and little benefit.

ezfe 3y ago
You've already acknowledged that most of the issues you encountered are specific to your phone or carrier. For example, eSIM works fine with 5G on iPhones and in my experience there is no delay to activate an account. I've set up multiple phones on eSIMs and never experienced something like that. Regarding backing up, yes it would be nice if you could backup your eSIM alongside the rest of your phone contents, however the real solution is just making it easy to provision a new eSIM. In my experience, if I need a new eSIM I just open the carrier app and reinstall it to the phone.
- wux 3y ago
  I think they've got a fair point, though, that a number of those issues with the eSIM reflect reliance on factors outside their control (for example, whether or not one's carrier has competent backend systems) where before swapping a SIM card was a physical action within their control. It's a frustrating feeling when a new technology takes something out of your hands in the name of convenience but, far from being seamless, actually introduces problems that are entirely out of your hands to fix.
- dontlaugh 3y ago
  The carriers are the problem, though. In many countries there's at most one eSIM carrier, some don't allow it for pay-as-you-go and their implementation is often generally poor. There's very little a carrier can get wrong with a SIM.
- amluto 3y ago
  I wasted a couple hours dealing with the fact that my carrier wants an ICCID to activate an eSIM, but iPhone eSIMs don’t have (or at least don’t show) an ICCID until after activation. My carrier literally has a webpage explaining how to do it on an iPhone, and the page is blatantly wrong. Good job testing.
  - _rs 3y ago
    Does this ID change if you provision a new eSIM? Would it be worthwhile to activate an eSIM on my phone and write down this ICCID for safe keeping in the future? Is there any other way to get this ID without having an active eSIM?
  - samtho 3y ago
    There is an ICCID, that is usually burned into the eSIM. However, SIM and eSIM are actually a tiny embedded system with a rudimentary Java byte code interpreter and you can insert firmware to dynamically swap between the reported ICCID. Usually this is a trick employed by MVNOs to swap between profiles based on the available networks to select the MNO that the MVNO has a more favorable contract with.
liminalsunset 3y ago
There's another issue with eSIM: In Canada, all of the carriers offering it charge $10 to provision an eSIM. You get a little plastic card with a QR code on it, and once provisioned, it's totally useless. Want to switch your phone? $10 and you have to go to the carrier physically. The iPhone feature where you can transfer an eSIM appears to work with carrier support, and the carriers here I've tried all don't support it so the process fails.
- mig39 3y ago
  My kids use e-sims from Orange France on their iPhones in Canada. 365-day great for kids that are always around WiFi, but need data once in a while. I basically pay for 5 gigs and it lasts a year. Roams on Telus, Bell, Rogers on 5G. I think for 3 kids, I pay about 10% of what I would pay for them to have monthly plans from a Canadian carrier.
- Hamuko 3y ago
  I've had similar experiences, although not quite as expensive. I think it was either 3€ or 4€ to get a new eSIM, which you would do by logging to the carrier's website, clicking a button and scanning the resulting QR code PNG. Absolutely nothing about the process warrants that cost and obviously the operator is blocking from using the iPhone-to-iPhone eSIM transfer tool. I called up my operator before I decided to switch to another operator. Got a whole slew of excuses for it. "Transfers are blocked for security purposes." Didn't figure out a security benefit for the surcharge. "You'd have to pay for a new physical SIM card too", except I wouldn't because physical SIM cards are REUSABLE. Tried to use this line of reasoning against the operator by asking to not order a new eSIM but reuse the eSIM I already had, but no dice. Thankfully I managed to find a phone plan that was cheaper than the one I had, so I fixed my eSIM issue and got slight savings on top. Of course after I signed the new contract, my existing operator decided to ring me up and butter me up again. At least this time they admitted that it was just pure rent-seeking and they surely could've given me a free eSIM. Too bad my mind had been made at this point.
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  Canadian wireless carriers and ISPs (Robellus[1]) suck tremendously. I'm not surprised that they managed to make eSims suck as well. [1] http://www.realfairforcanada.ca http://www.realfairforcanada.ca
aaomidi 3y ago
Esims do not need internet or QR codes. A carrier can just push a sim to you as a notification.
- callalex 3y ago
  Push how? Over Bluetooth/NFC? Or do you mean over the internet?
  - aaomidi 3y ago
    I’m not entirely sure how the mechanism works, I think it just gets pushed through GSM carriers around you? I’ve recently had experience doing this.
dogma1138 3y ago
Physical SIMs can also be and are segregated to a specific network e.g. it’s still possible to buy only 3 or 4G SIMs that are cheaper heck until recently even 2G only SIM packages were a thing. As far as the other problems go it’s the same with physical SIMs again. Nearly all physical SIMs today are provisioned OTA so it quite often can take 24-48 hours for your physical SIM to activate especially if you migrate your number between carriers. The only way to get an “instant” SIM provisioning is to go to a large physical store even the smaller ones are pretty much the same as getting the SIM delivered to your house i.e. they take you through the same phone/internet based activation and provisioning process. You’re also wrong about the internet requirement the provisioning system for eSIM does not require internet on the device for access the QR code is essentially an authentication code that combined with the IEMI allows you to register with a carrier. You usually do need an internet connection on another device to get the QR code in the first place but if you can also use a checkout terminal or just get a paper print out of the QR.
- bunga-bunga 3y ago
  > it quite often can take 24-48 hours for your physical SIM to activate In my world, I land in an airport, purchase a SIM card and it works before I leave the airport (or the operator’s desk). It’s often that way with eSIMs purchased via Airalo. The delay could appear when your transferring your number, but even then you can still use a temporary number until the old one overrides it.
  - dogma1138 3y ago
    Pre-paid SIMs are different they are usually pre-provisioned or have an expedient path since there is less KYC and other checks that need to be performed.
varispeed 3y ago
That sounds like something an overly eager and feared manager pushed through because it sounds nice, you know "eSim" and there was nobody to tell him / her it's a stupid idea or maybe there was, but got shut down. Many organisations suffer this problem and there is really no good solutions to that.
yosito 3y ago
For data-only SIMs while traveling, eSIMs are pretty great. I can just download an eSIM from an app and it's ready to go in minutes. Yes, it requires wifi or another working data plan to get started, but that's way easier than having to find a shop that sells physical SIM cards. If I didn't need to keep my phone number, I'd just stick with data only eSIMs. Unfortunately, I need to keep my phone number because a ton of banks and other accounts that I need to do business have required SMS-only 2FA. Recently, I bought a new phone while traveling and Google Fi wouldn't let me activate a new eSIM without returning to the US. If I would break my phone abroad, it would be an absolute nightmare. eSIMs shouldn't have this problem, but they do.
- smallerfish 3y ago
  Park your number with a voip firm. You'll get SMS via email. Use local pay-per-use sims wherever you travel. You do not need to maintain a US phone plan to keep a US phone number.
  - mderazon 3y ago
    Any recommended ones?
    - smallerfish 3y ago
      Recommend is a strong word since their UI is stuck in the pre-2010s, but voip.ms is cheap and generally good service. And Acrobits Softphone is a reliable SIP dialer for Android which is very light on battery life.
  - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    Most MFA implementations will balk as soon as they discover you're on VoIP. And they will.
    - delecti 3y ago
      Yup, I've got my 2005 phone number on VOIP, but I've got to keep a "normal" number for things like that. https://xkcd.com/1129/ https://xkcd.com/1129/
drdaeman 3y ago
> The phone is hardcoded to only support 4G via esim, although the phone itself supports 5G if you use a physical sim on the same mobile network I suppose it's an operator problem. 5G with eSIM most certainly works on T-Mobile US. I've also had 5G working on AT&T Mexico eSIM when I was in 5G coverage area (very spotty). Can't tell about travel eSIMs (such as Airalo) as I haven't used those in areas with 5G coverage. > Once provisioned, the mobile network doesn't actually activate your account for a few hours. Worked nearly instantly for me every time I've tried. Definitely must be a sloppy operator or some error during provisioning.
TechBro8615 3y ago
Also (at least for my iPhone 12 mini), you can only have one esim. I have a SIM for two countries and one of them has to be physical, which is unfortunate.
- prewk 3y ago
  I have two on my iPhone 13 mini. One with 5g.
- dognotdog 3y ago
  I was under the impression you could only activate one esim at a time, but store up to 6(?) on that phone?
- smoovb 3y ago
  I have 10 eSIMs on my iOS (iPhone 12) device currently, with one active eSIM and one active pSIM.
ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
Let's go over these one by one: > Scanning the QR code to install the esim requires internet - it can't activate the sim card to get internet unless it already has internet. Seems like a bit of an oversight! Not an oversight at all. The key exchange has to happen online, as key material is generated on-device, not delivered in the QR code. > Once provisioned, the mobile network doesn't actually activate your account for a few hours. Kinda takes away the benefit of 'one click and go'. That is absolutely your operator's issue; I've been up and running in 60 seconds. > The phone is hardcoded to only support 4G via esim, although the phone itself supports 5G if you use a physical sim on the same mobile network. Nobody on the forums has managed to make it work. Which phone is this? I get 5G via eSIM on my Pixel 5, and it works fine on all 5G-capable iPhones too. > If you damage the phone, there is no way to transfer the esim to a new phone. I assumed it would transfer over automatically as part of backup/restore, either via cable or cloud backup, but no. Nope; the secret key never leaves the phone. Contact your operator and they send you a new QR, which for me took five minutes and I had the QR in my email inbox. > The mobile network has no ability to transfer the sim over either. Apparently their software doesn't allow it. See above. > The only way is to transfer to a physical sim, wait for it to arrive, then mark the physical sim as lost, and then reorder an esim. Great - that takes 4 days, during which you have no service. Sounds like you should pick an operator that doesn't suck quite as much.
smcin 3y ago
> The phone is hardcoded to only support 4G (not 5G) via eSIM Which phones and model(s)? iPhone (X/11/12/13/14)? Google Pixel Pro 6/7? Samsung Galaxy (S20 or upwards)? Huawei? Oppo? Sony? Xiaomi? Other?
kanbara 3y ago
this is why apple spent time and effort on an area where most carriers and manufacturers do not. eSIM on iPhone are instantly transferrable, reconnectable, and available on setup of any logged in device.
mikelward 3y ago
My Vodafone eSIM wouldn't work on 5G. After a week of back and forth with customer service they said I was on the wrong plan, please give them more money to get 5G.

ezfe 3y ago

You've already acknowledged that most of the issues you encountered are specific to your phone or carrier. For example, eSIM works fine with 5G on iPhones and in my experience there is no delay to activate an account. I've set up multiple phones on eSIMs and never experienced something like that. Regarding backing up, yes it would be nice if you could backup your eSIM alongside the rest of your phone contents, however the real solution is just making it easy to provision a new eSIM. In my experience, if I need a new eSIM I just open the carrier app and reinstall it to the phone.

wux 3y ago
I think they've got a fair point, though, that a number of those issues with the eSIM reflect reliance on factors outside their control (for example, whether or not one's carrier has competent backend systems) where before swapping a SIM card was a physical action within their control. It's a frustrating feeling when a new technology takes something out of your hands in the name of convenience but, far from being seamless, actually introduces problems that are entirely out of your hands to fix.
dontlaugh 3y ago
The carriers are the problem, though. In many countries there's at most one eSIM carrier, some don't allow it for pay-as-you-go and their implementation is often generally poor. There's very little a carrier can get wrong with a SIM.
amluto 3y ago
I wasted a couple hours dealing with the fact that my carrier wants an ICCID to activate an eSIM, but iPhone eSIMs don’t have (or at least don’t show) an ICCID until after activation. My carrier literally has a webpage explaining how to do it on an iPhone, and the page is blatantly wrong. Good job testing.
- _rs 3y ago
  Does this ID change if you provision a new eSIM? Would it be worthwhile to activate an eSIM on my phone and write down this ICCID for safe keeping in the future? Is there any other way to get this ID without having an active eSIM?
- samtho 3y ago
  There is an ICCID, that is usually burned into the eSIM. However, SIM and eSIM are actually a tiny embedded system with a rudimentary Java byte code interpreter and you can insert firmware to dynamically swap between the reported ICCID. Usually this is a trick employed by MVNOs to swap between profiles based on the available networks to select the MNO that the MVNO has a more favorable contract with.

liminalsunset 3y ago

There's another issue with eSIM: In Canada, all of the carriers offering it charge $10 to provision an eSIM. You get a little plastic card with a QR code on it, and once provisioned, it's totally useless. Want to switch your phone? $10 and you have to go to the carrier physically. The iPhone feature where you can transfer an eSIM appears to work with carrier support, and the carriers here I've tried all don't support it so the process fails.

mig39 3y ago
My kids use e-sims from Orange France on their iPhones in Canada. 365-day great for kids that are always around WiFi, but need data once in a while. I basically pay for 5 gigs and it lasts a year. Roams on Telus, Bell, Rogers on 5G. I think for 3 kids, I pay about 10% of what I would pay for them to have monthly plans from a Canadian carrier.
Hamuko 3y ago
I've had similar experiences, although not quite as expensive. I think it was either 3€ or 4€ to get a new eSIM, which you would do by logging to the carrier's website, clicking a button and scanning the resulting QR code PNG. Absolutely nothing about the process warrants that cost and obviously the operator is blocking from using the iPhone-to-iPhone eSIM transfer tool. I called up my operator before I decided to switch to another operator. Got a whole slew of excuses for it. "Transfers are blocked for security purposes." Didn't figure out a security benefit for the surcharge. "You'd have to pay for a new physical SIM card too", except I wouldn't because physical SIM cards are REUSABLE. Tried to use this line of reasoning against the operator by asking to not order a new eSIM but reuse the eSIM I already had, but no dice. Thankfully I managed to find a phone plan that was cheaper than the one I had, so I fixed my eSIM issue and got slight savings on top. Of course after I signed the new contract, my existing operator decided to ring me up and butter me up again. At least this time they admitted that it was just pure rent-seeking and they surely could've given me a free eSIM. Too bad my mind had been made at this point.
AlexandrB 3y ago
Canadian wireless carriers and ISPs (Robellus[1]) suck tremendously. I'm not surprised that they managed to make eSims suck as well. [1] http://www.realfairforcanada.ca http://www.realfairforcanada.ca

aaomidi 3y ago

Esims do not need internet or QR codes. A carrier can just push a sim to you as a notification.

callalex 3y ago
Push how? Over Bluetooth/NFC? Or do you mean over the internet?
- aaomidi 3y ago
  I’m not entirely sure how the mechanism works, I think it just gets pushed through GSM carriers around you? I’ve recently had experience doing this.

dogma1138 3y ago

Physical SIMs can also be and are segregated to a specific network e.g. it’s still possible to buy only 3 or 4G SIMs that are cheaper heck until recently even 2G only SIM packages were a thing. As far as the other problems go it’s the same with physical SIMs again. Nearly all physical SIMs today are provisioned OTA so it quite often can take 24-48 hours for your physical SIM to activate especially if you migrate your number between carriers. The only way to get an “instant” SIM provisioning is to go to a large physical store even the smaller ones are pretty much the same as getting the SIM delivered to your house i.e. they take you through the same phone/internet based activation and provisioning process. You’re also wrong about the internet requirement the provisioning system for eSIM does not require internet on the device for access the QR code is essentially an authentication code that combined with the IEMI allows you to register with a carrier. You usually do need an internet connection on another device to get the QR code in the first place but if you can also use a checkout terminal or just get a paper print out of the QR.

bunga-bunga 3y ago
> it quite often can take 24-48 hours for your physical SIM to activate In my world, I land in an airport, purchase a SIM card and it works before I leave the airport (or the operator’s desk). It’s often that way with eSIMs purchased via Airalo. The delay could appear when your transferring your number, but even then you can still use a temporary number until the old one overrides it.
- dogma1138 3y ago
  Pre-paid SIMs are different they are usually pre-provisioned or have an expedient path since there is less KYC and other checks that need to be performed.

varispeed 3y ago

That sounds like something an overly eager and feared manager pushed through because it sounds nice, you know "eSim" and there was nobody to tell him / her it's a stupid idea or maybe there was, but got shut down. Many organisations suffer this problem and there is really no good solutions to that.

yosito 3y ago

For data-only SIMs while traveling, eSIMs are pretty great. I can just download an eSIM from an app and it's ready to go in minutes. Yes, it requires wifi or another working data plan to get started, but that's way easier than having to find a shop that sells physical SIM cards. If I didn't need to keep my phone number, I'd just stick with data only eSIMs. Unfortunately, I need to keep my phone number because a ton of banks and other accounts that I need to do business have required SMS-only 2FA. Recently, I bought a new phone while traveling and Google Fi wouldn't let me activate a new eSIM without returning to the US. If I would break my phone abroad, it would be an absolute nightmare. eSIMs shouldn't have this problem, but they do.

smallerfish 3y ago
Park your number with a voip firm. You'll get SMS via email. Use local pay-per-use sims wherever you travel. You do not need to maintain a US phone plan to keep a US phone number.
- mderazon 3y ago
  Any recommended ones?
  - smallerfish 3y ago
    Recommend is a strong word since their UI is stuck in the pre-2010s, but voip.ms is cheap and generally good service. And Acrobits Softphone is a reliable SIP dialer for Android which is very light on battery life.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  Most MFA implementations will balk as soon as they discover you're on VoIP. And they will.
  - delecti 3y ago
    Yup, I've got my 2005 phone number on VOIP, but I've got to keep a "normal" number for things like that. https://xkcd.com/1129/ https://xkcd.com/1129/

drdaeman 3y ago

> The phone is hardcoded to only support 4G via esim, although the phone itself supports 5G if you use a physical sim on the same mobile network I suppose it's an operator problem. 5G with eSIM most certainly works on T-Mobile US. I've also had 5G working on AT&T Mexico eSIM when I was in 5G coverage area (very spotty). Can't tell about travel eSIMs (such as Airalo) as I haven't used those in areas with 5G coverage. > Once provisioned, the mobile network doesn't actually activate your account for a few hours. Worked nearly instantly for me every time I've tried. Definitely must be a sloppy operator or some error during provisioning.

TechBro8615 3y ago

Also (at least for my iPhone 12 mini), you can only have one esim. I have a SIM for two countries and one of them has to be physical, which is unfortunate.

prewk 3y ago
I have two on my iPhone 13 mini. One with 5g.
dognotdog 3y ago
I was under the impression you could only activate one esim at a time, but store up to 6(?) on that phone?
smoovb 3y ago
I have 10 eSIMs on my iOS (iPhone 12) device currently, with one active eSIM and one active pSIM.

ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago

Let's go over these one by one: > Scanning the QR code to install the esim requires internet - it can't activate the sim card to get internet unless it already has internet. Seems like a bit of an oversight! Not an oversight at all. The key exchange has to happen online, as key material is generated on-device, not delivered in the QR code. > Once provisioned, the mobile network doesn't actually activate your account for a few hours. Kinda takes away the benefit of 'one click and go'. That is absolutely your operator's issue; I've been up and running in 60 seconds. > The phone is hardcoded to only support 4G via esim, although the phone itself supports 5G if you use a physical sim on the same mobile network. Nobody on the forums has managed to make it work. Which phone is this? I get 5G via eSIM on my Pixel 5, and it works fine on all 5G-capable iPhones too. > If you damage the phone, there is no way to transfer the esim to a new phone. I assumed it would transfer over automatically as part of backup/restore, either via cable or cloud backup, but no. Nope; the secret key never leaves the phone. Contact your operator and they send you a new QR, which for me took five minutes and I had the QR in my email inbox. > The mobile network has no ability to transfer the sim over either. Apparently their software doesn't allow it. See above. > The only way is to transfer to a physical sim, wait for it to arrive, then mark the physical sim as lost, and then reorder an esim. Great - that takes 4 days, during which you have no service. Sounds like you should pick an operator that doesn't suck quite as much.

smcin 3y ago

> The phone is hardcoded to only support 4G (not 5G) via eSIM Which phones and model(s)? iPhone (X/11/12/13/14)? Google Pixel Pro 6/7? Samsung Galaxy (S20 or upwards)? Huawei? Oppo? Sony? Xiaomi? Other?

kanbara 3y ago

this is why apple spent time and effort on an area where most carriers and manufacturers do not. eSIM on iPhone are instantly transferrable, reconnectable, and available on setup of any logged in device.

mikelward 3y ago

My Vodafone eSIM wouldn't work on 5G. After a week of back and forth with customer service they said I was on the wrong plan, please give them more money to get 5G.