4 ms·

In your opinion what makes these people more "real" than other Americans?

xpe 3y ago
I’ve thought about this topic many times. At times, I’ve found the conflation of various meanings of “real” to be confusing at best, but more often, I find it to be a mark of confusion. Coming to the conclusion that someone else is likely confused may seem uncharitable. (At the very least, blending meanings in this way is prone to misinterpretation.) Nevertheless, criticizing word choice and conceptual understandings is important, particularly in any culture (especially mainstream American society) that too often skips over self-reflection. While thinking about “real America” most recently, I had a conversation with ChatGPT while reviewing the English Stack Exchange[1] and various etymology web sites. As a result of this research and conversation, this response emerged *: > Dictionaries define "real" as "actually existing or happening, not imaginary, not fake or artificial." When used in the context of describing people or groups, "real" often signifies something genuine, authentic, or without pretense. > Now to the claim: when "real" is used to describe communities or individuals, it is often in contrast to something perceived as inauthentic or disconnected from the majority's experiences. The term "grassroots," for instance, refers to the most basic level of an activity or organization, therefore, when someone talks about "real" people or "real" America, they often imply these grassroots, everyday experiences. > Poverty, while a difficult and complex issue, is an experience that many people across the world can relate to or understand. The struggles associated with financial hardship often seem more "real" because they are visceral and undeniable. > On the other hand, wealth, especially extreme wealth, is experienced by a smaller portion of the population. The lifestyle of the rich and entitled often includes privileges and luxuries that the majority do not have access to, which might make their experiences seem less "real" or relatable to many. The wealthy are often seen as living in a kind of "bubble" that separates them from the rest of society. > It's worth noting, however, that "real" is a subjective term in these contexts and its usage can vary greatly depending on who is speaking and their perspective. People of all economic statuses have "real" experiences, but societal narratives and cultural biases often shape how we use and understand terms like this. I think this writing is somewhat useful. You? P.S. A few words of pre-defense against knee-jerk criticisms of my use of ChatGPT here. I consistently use it conscientiously and critically. I’ll grant that I might write something better if I did 10+ hours of concentrated research. In this case, I combined my experience with ~20 minutes of thinking. * I say emerged deliberatively. The way that I use interactive AI technologies is shaped by my experience, education, and skepticism. Don’t assume that generative text is roughly in the same ballpark; the difference in quality is substantial based on how a human asks. The text is path-dependent; you would get quite different results. [1] https://english.stackexchange.com https://english.stackexchange.com
dgudkov 3y ago
Their life is not shaped to a large extent by advertisement.
- lobf 3y ago
  How can you possibly think that?
  - dgudkov 3y ago
    Pervasive advertisement affects perception and frequently creates illusory goals and desires (which is exactly the goal of advertisement). People who are not targeted/affected by advertisement don't have artificially induced goals/desires and thus live a more realistic life.
komali2 3y ago
It's so hard to say, really. I traveled extensively across the USA on Greyhound, Amtrak, car, and motorcycle, over maybe a decade. The America I saw on those trips felt so different from the America of living in SF as an engineer, or living in Houston as a student, or watching a tv show or movie set in America. When I read Hunter S, or watch a Callaghan video, I think of those trips. Hari Kunzru said that Hunter S "makes himself ugly to expose the ugliness he sees around him," and I think that puts it well. My chief takeaway from my trips across middle America is that America is ugly. It's thousands of miles of freeway with towns dependent on the local mcdonalds and gas station stamped around it. It's trailer parks and fentanyl and painkiller addiction. It's isolation, boredom, malnutrition, anger, untreated disease. It's violently masculine. It's unhinged conspiracy and functional illiteracy. When I watched Callaghan's Q conference video: https://youtu.be/KYKOLwt8pwo https://youtu.be/KYKOLwt8pwo all I could think was "holy shit I met every one of those people." Not actually, it's just, so many people I met on my travels were like that.
- jeegsy 3y ago
  > My chief takeaway from my trips across middle America is that America is ugly I feel the urge to defend my country but there is a smug certainty to this take that tells me I would be wasting my time trying to change your mind. I'm literally shaking!
  - komali2 3y ago
    Idk, go and see for yourself I guess. I'm not talking about the natural environment, Roosevelt was correct to protect America's greatest asset with the national parks programs. This doesn't also mean everywhere on earth is perfect. I don't know what to tell you other than I recommend traveling to some towns with populations of 10k or less and talk to people. It's a totally different America from the cities and major suburbs. I don't mean to come off as smug, I've just seen a great deal of the country, the beauty and the ugly, and I think the ugly is like... I dunno, this great massive hidden secret or something.
    - jeegsy 3y ago
pauldenton 3y ago
Cosmopolitans vs Nationalists People who are citizens of the world vs people who are grounded in a specific time and place, who's ancestors have lived in that area for generations and have the stories to share of it.

xpe 3y ago

I’ve thought about this topic many times. At times, I’ve found the conflation of various meanings of “real” to be confusing at best, but more often, I find it to be a mark of confusion. Coming to the conclusion that someone else is likely confused may seem uncharitable. (At the very least, blending meanings in this way is prone to misinterpretation.) Nevertheless, criticizing word choice and conceptual understandings is important, particularly in any culture (especially mainstream American society) that too often skips over self-reflection. While thinking about “real America” most recently, I had a conversation with ChatGPT while reviewing the English Stack Exchange[1] and various etymology web sites. As a result of this research and conversation, this response emerged *: > Dictionaries define "real" as "actually existing or happening, not imaginary, not fake or artificial." When used in the context of describing people or groups, "real" often signifies something genuine, authentic, or without pretense. > Now to the claim: when "real" is used to describe communities or individuals, it is often in contrast to something perceived as inauthentic or disconnected from the majority's experiences. The term "grassroots," for instance, refers to the most basic level of an activity or organization, therefore, when someone talks about "real" people or "real" America, they often imply these grassroots, everyday experiences. > Poverty, while a difficult and complex issue, is an experience that many people across the world can relate to or understand. The struggles associated with financial hardship often seem more "real" because they are visceral and undeniable. > On the other hand, wealth, especially extreme wealth, is experienced by a smaller portion of the population. The lifestyle of the rich and entitled often includes privileges and luxuries that the majority do not have access to, which might make their experiences seem less "real" or relatable to many. The wealthy are often seen as living in a kind of "bubble" that separates them from the rest of society. > It's worth noting, however, that "real" is a subjective term in these contexts and its usage can vary greatly depending on who is speaking and their perspective. People of all economic statuses have "real" experiences, but societal narratives and cultural biases often shape how we use and understand terms like this. I think this writing is somewhat useful. You? P.S. A few words of pre-defense against knee-jerk criticisms of my use of ChatGPT here. I consistently use it conscientiously and critically. I’ll grant that I might write something better if I did 10+ hours of concentrated research. In this case, I combined my experience with ~20 minutes of thinking. * I say emerged deliberatively. The way that I use interactive AI technologies is shaped by my experience, education, and skepticism. Don’t assume that generative text is roughly in the same ballpark; the difference in quality is substantial based on how a human asks. The text is path-dependent; you would get quite different results. [1] https://english.stackexchange.com https://english.stackexchange.com

dgudkov 3y ago

Their life is not shaped to a large extent by advertisement.

lobf 3y ago
How can you possibly think that?
- dgudkov 3y ago
  Pervasive advertisement affects perception and frequently creates illusory goals and desires (which is exactly the goal of advertisement). People who are not targeted/affected by advertisement don't have artificially induced goals/desires and thus live a more realistic life.

komali2 3y ago

It's so hard to say, really. I traveled extensively across the USA on Greyhound, Amtrak, car, and motorcycle, over maybe a decade. The America I saw on those trips felt so different from the America of living in SF as an engineer, or living in Houston as a student, or watching a tv show or movie set in America. When I read Hunter S, or watch a Callaghan video, I think of those trips. Hari Kunzru said that Hunter S "makes himself ugly to expose the ugliness he sees around him," and I think that puts it well. My chief takeaway from my trips across middle America is that America is ugly. It's thousands of miles of freeway with towns dependent on the local mcdonalds and gas station stamped around it. It's trailer parks and fentanyl and painkiller addiction. It's isolation, boredom, malnutrition, anger, untreated disease. It's violently masculine. It's unhinged conspiracy and functional illiteracy. When I watched Callaghan's Q conference video: https://youtu.be/KYKOLwt8pwo https://youtu.be/KYKOLwt8pwo all I could think was "holy shit I met every one of those people." Not actually, it's just, so many people I met on my travels were like that.

jeegsy 3y ago
> My chief takeaway from my trips across middle America is that America is ugly I feel the urge to defend my country but there is a smug certainty to this take that tells me I would be wasting my time trying to change your mind. I'm literally shaking!
- komali2 3y ago
  Idk, go and see for yourself I guess. I'm not talking about the natural environment, Roosevelt was correct to protect America's greatest asset with the national parks programs. This doesn't also mean everywhere on earth is perfect. I don't know what to tell you other than I recommend traveling to some towns with populations of 10k or less and talk to people. It's a totally different America from the cities and major suburbs. I don't mean to come off as smug, I've just seen a great deal of the country, the beauty and the ugly, and I think the ugly is like... I dunno, this great massive hidden secret or something.
  - jeegsy 3y ago

pauldenton 3y ago

Cosmopolitans vs Nationalists People who are citizens of the world vs people who are grounded in a specific time and place, who's ancestors have lived in that area for generations and have the stories to share of it.