7 ms·

> She refused the playing of US national anthem before her concerts, drawing further public scorn. Was this a thing?! A good episode of "You're Wrong About...

> She refused the playing of US national anthem before her concerts, drawing further public scorn. Was this a thing?! A good episode of "You're Wrong About..." covers the controversy of her: https://open.spotify.com/episode/265qKOV5C7XBqlyXMjp7VF https://open.spotify.com/episode/265qKOV5C7XBqlyXMjp7VF https://podcasts.apple.com/at/podcast/sin%C3%A9ad-oconnor-with-allyson-mccabe/id1380008439?i=1000608274693 https://podcasts.apple.com/at/podcast/sin%C3%A9ad-oconnor-wi...

bryanrasmussen 3y ago
I used to refuse to stand for the pledge of allegiance in high school and get threatened with being beat up, I guess it was a thing at the time.
- jgalt212 3y ago
  [flagged]
- isykt 3y ago
  The second Iraq war started when I was in junior high, that’s when I stopped standing for the pledge and kept it through high school. There was a big discussion about whether students could be reprimanded, but ultimately I think it was decided that refusal was a form of free speech. I was proud of that, and so were my parents.
  - bachmeier 3y ago
    It was decided long ago: https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/west-virginia-v.-barnette-the-freedom-to-not-pledge-allegiance https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/west-virginia-v.-barnett... There was a Jehovah's Witness in our school. And of course he would not participate, leading some of the other kids to want to beat him up. They only gave up after they were threatened by the school and told by their parents that they have to respect other views. That was long ago, when the US valued civility. These days the parents would probably tell their kids to beat him up. The parents might even show them some moves.
    - clipsy 3y ago
      Just because it was decided a long time ago doesn't mean school administrators have stopped being petty authoritarians. The school district I was attending at the time tried to push mandatory recital of the pledge every morning and after pushback (nothing in the courts, unfortunately) settled on the absurd policy that you don't have to recite the pledge, but you need to stand, put your hand on your chest, and pretend to recite the pledge. I wish I'd had the insight at the time to do an end-run around my parents and contact the ACLU about it, but oh well.
    - isykt 3y ago
      The US is astoundingly good at re-litigating, on a local level, things that were “decided long ago.” Florida has now decided that slavery had some upsides for Black people.
- dctoedt 3y ago
  > I used to refuse to stand for the pledge of allegiance in high school I almost never participate in saying the Pledge of Allegiance. I took the constitutionally-prescribed oath* in the Navy (I'm a third-generation veteran) and also as a lawyer, and I pigheadedly feel that society doesn't get to keep demanding more and more proof of my patriotism and fidelity, thank you very much — that way lies trouble, as we've seen happen elsewhere. * To support and defend the Constitution of the United States
- nmfisher 3y ago
  My mother - an Australian citizen - went to school in Texas in the 60s and caused a big stir because she wouldn't recite the Pledge of Allegiance (because why would she? She wasn't American).
  - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
    exactly, I wasn't an American citizen and had no interest in becoming one so standing for the pledge seemed a little bit too much, although I suspect knowing my anti-authoritarian tendencies I might have refused anyway. But at any rate had to be ready to defend myself anyway.
vaporary 3y ago
Perhaps it was only a thing at the Garden State Arts Center (now the PNC Bank Arts Center)? Here's a Washington Post story at the time: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1990/08/28/listeners-angered-by-sinead-oconnor/b0b89b89-3ec1-4ad8-8978-4dd80513f342/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1990/08/28/... The Garden State Arts Center, which always starts its shows by playing the anthem, gave in to the singer's demand, fearing that a last-minute cancellation would enrage the audience of 9,000, but prohibited any future appearances by the hit singer.

bryanrasmussen 3y ago

I used to refuse to stand for the pledge of allegiance in high school and get threatened with being beat up, I guess it was a thing at the time.

jgalt212 3y ago
[flagged]
isykt 3y ago
The second Iraq war started when I was in junior high, that’s when I stopped standing for the pledge and kept it through high school. There was a big discussion about whether students could be reprimanded, but ultimately I think it was decided that refusal was a form of free speech. I was proud of that, and so were my parents.
- bachmeier 3y ago
  It was decided long ago: https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/west-virginia-v.-barnette-the-freedom-to-not-pledge-allegiance https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/west-virginia-v.-barnett... There was a Jehovah's Witness in our school. And of course he would not participate, leading some of the other kids to want to beat him up. They only gave up after they were threatened by the school and told by their parents that they have to respect other views. That was long ago, when the US valued civility. These days the parents would probably tell their kids to beat him up. The parents might even show them some moves.
  - clipsy 3y ago
    Just because it was decided a long time ago doesn't mean school administrators have stopped being petty authoritarians. The school district I was attending at the time tried to push mandatory recital of the pledge every morning and after pushback (nothing in the courts, unfortunately) settled on the absurd policy that you don't have to recite the pledge, but you need to stand, put your hand on your chest, and pretend to recite the pledge. I wish I'd had the insight at the time to do an end-run around my parents and contact the ACLU about it, but oh well.
  - isykt 3y ago
    The US is astoundingly good at re-litigating, on a local level, things that were “decided long ago.” Florida has now decided that slavery had some upsides for Black people.
dctoedt 3y ago
> I used to refuse to stand for the pledge of allegiance in high school I almost never participate in saying the Pledge of Allegiance. I took the constitutionally-prescribed oath* in the Navy (I'm a third-generation veteran) and also as a lawyer, and I pigheadedly feel that society doesn't get to keep demanding more and more proof of my patriotism and fidelity, thank you very much — that way lies trouble, as we've seen happen elsewhere. * To support and defend the Constitution of the United States
nmfisher 3y ago
My mother - an Australian citizen - went to school in Texas in the 60s and caused a big stir because she wouldn't recite the Pledge of Allegiance (because why would she? She wasn't American).
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago
  exactly, I wasn't an American citizen and had no interest in becoming one so standing for the pledge seemed a little bit too much, although I suspect knowing my anti-authoritarian tendencies I might have refused anyway. But at any rate had to be ready to defend myself anyway.

vaporary 3y ago

Perhaps it was only a thing at the Garden State Arts Center (now the PNC Bank Arts Center)? Here's a Washington Post story at the time: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1990/08/28/listeners-angered-by-sinead-oconnor/b0b89b89-3ec1-4ad8-8978-4dd80513f342/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1990/08/28/... The Garden State Arts Center, which always starts its shows by playing the anthem, gave in to the singer's demand, fearing that a last-minute cancellation would enrage the audience of 9,000, but prohibited any future appearances by the hit singer.