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I remember being outraged at her tearing up John Paul II’s picture. The media in the U.S. did a great job of hiding why she did it. I was not outraged at her w
by synetic 3y ago
I remember being outraged at her tearing up John Paul II’s picture. The media in the U.S. did a great job of hiding why she did it. I was not outraged at her when I found out her justified reasons for doing so. That was the first time I became consciously aware that news is a business and that that business thrives when it generates outrage. I no longer fall victim to this.
She’s far more the saint than that bastard John Paul II.
EDIT: Ironic this is flagged. I’m proud of this actually. I feel a slight kinship with Sinead now. In honor of her death would that we all, in our own way, tear to shreds the image of John Paul II!
- basisword 3y agoDo you not think your comment would have been better without the final sentence?
- osullish 3y agoI think his last sentence doesn't go far enough - I'm not sure how far I'd need to go to describe someone who covered up systemic child abuse on a global scale
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoIt always confused me how, at least in Boston, many many priests (but not the most egregious one or two) avoided prosecution for child abuse.
- osullish 3y agoSame in Ireland, some high profile cases were prosecuted- but not the majority, and nothing happened the nuns - especially the evil that ran the mother and baby homes. 300+ babies discarded in a septic tank.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoDo you have a link for the 300+ discarded babies? I'd like to read about that.
- osullish 3y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bon_Secours_Mother_and_Baby_Home https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bon_Secours_Mother_and_Baby_...
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoThank you. No mention of prosecutions in that article. Perhaps many of the people who were in charge are no longer alive, but perhaps some still there. There's no mention of it that I see.
- fknorangesite 3y agoAnd similarly in Canada as we are finding the unmarked graves of children at the former sites of the Residential "School" system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_sc... O'Connor was right.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoI did not know about this. Thank you for sharing
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- BugsJustFindMe 3y agoI don't. Do you? If so, why?
- prmoustache 3y agoyeah think of those poor bastards who now are associated to the former chef of a child abuse cartel.
- dang 3y agoIt was flamebait, but please let's not take the bait because a religious flamewar is not what we need here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- synetic 3y ago[flagged]
- basisword 3y agoThat’s the reason I called it out as respectfully as I could. I was hoping OP would edit the comment given the rest of it is valid and gets the same point across.
- synetic 3y ago[flagged]
- nailer 3y agoDan I don't think that comment was designed to be religious flamebait. It may seem like sectarianism if you're not Catholic so I understand feeling this way, but the people who are the most angry about Catholic priests raping children are people that grew up Catholic like myself. Ie, this isn't attacking anyone on the basis of their religion. I'd probably say the comment could be improved by adding a link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Pope_John_Paul_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Pope_John_Paul_II instead of 'that bastard' but criticism of people that facilitate child abuse is quite reasonable and very separate from attacking members of a particular religion.
- howinteresting 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- 3y ago
- bmmayer1 3y agoThis was arguably one of the first "cancellations" before "cancel culture" was a thing we were talking about. Right or wrong, what she did was definitely courageous and arguably destroyed her career.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- CydeWeys 3y ago> This was arguably one of the first "cancellations" before "cancel culture" was a thing we were talking about. Um, I think the 1,500+ year history of the Catholic church would beg to differ here ... And even before that, Socrates was so canceled for his views he was killed by the state.
- bmmayer1 3y agoThat's a fair point. There's arguably an inflection point where media became "mass" media that's hard to pin down but somewhere in the late 1980's-early 1990's where 24 hour news and the internet were in their infancy. I'm sure there's a smart thesis here that a media expert could make ;)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- clipsy 3y agoNot to mention that only a few short decades ago homosexuals had to meticulously hide their sexuality and any of their relationships for fear of getting fired simply because of who they were (and, before that, imprisoned!). And countless other examples. Anyone who believes "cancel culture" is a recent development is breathtakingly ignorant.
- nailer 3y agoSame. As a child, I thought the Pope and the church helped poor people and practiced showing people how to be good to each other by following the ten commandments. When Sinead O Connor ripped up the picture of the Pope on SNL I remember asking why. Someone said the reason was because she was crazy. They were lying to me. Sinead O'Connor was drawing attention to child sexual abuse when nobody else was. > She’s far more the saint than that bastard John Paul II. I don't know about JP2's involvement in child sexual abuse (not doubting you, just saying I don't know *) but Ratzinger / Benedict absolutely deliberately prevented investigation into, and facilitated (by moving rapist priests into new parishes), child sexual abuse. Years later I apologized to O'Connor on Twitter and she took it with grace. * Update: some research showed the Vatican, under JP2, opposed extensions of the statutes of limitations in sex abuse cases.
- michaelsbradley 3y agoRatzinger / Benedict absolutely deliberately prevented investigation into, and facilitated (by moving rapist priests into new parishes), child sexual abuse. No, not really at all, actually: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#Sexual_abuse_in_the_Catholic_Church https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#Sexual_abuse...
- nailer 3y ago[flagged]
- michaelsbradley 3y ago[flagged]
- dang 3y agoPlease stop. We don't want religious flamewars. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- 3y ago
- michaelsbradley 3y ago[flagged]
- synetic 3y agoWe have different perceptions of the reality of the man. I hope, sincerely, that you find peace in Him and not him.
- howinteresting 3y agohttps://apnews.com/article/church-sex-abuse-john-paul-poland-7e684c043b909275fc14e48be7fdc642 https://apnews.com/article/church-sex-abuse-john-paul-poland...
- dang 3y agoYou started a religious flamewar and then poured fuel into it in multiple places. That's why your comment is flagged. Please don't post like that here. Your comment was just fine in the first paragraph and broke the site guidelines with the second paragraph—not because we care what you think about popes, but because such swipes predictably lead to internet dreckfests and we're simply trying to have a forum that doesn't suck. At least to the extent possible. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- synetic 3y agoI’ve been on this site since the beginning. I change usernames periodically. I understand the desire to avoid flame wars. Here’s a sincere question. If I called Charles Manson a bastard would that be flamebait? Are we at the point that calling out the objectively verified despicable acts of a person is flamebait? It wasn’t a swipe at the man. Sinead suffered a lot for ripping his image apart. She has died now. It is appropriate to point out she did not deserve the reaction and that the protector of her abusers did deserve to have his image shredded. It’s always ok to call out those who abuse or protect abusers. I care not that my post got flagged. I’m glad of it. I feel a tiny bit like Sinead. Even after all that is known about John Paul 2 people still can’t face reality about the man. We obviously don’t agree. I’ll stop posting about this and just read all responses.
- dang 3y ago"That bastard John Paul II" was obvious flamebait—of course it was a swipe. You're broadcasting to thousands of people when you post here. Did you really think some people wouldn't react? Is it a high-quality conversation about Sinead O'Connor to have people yell at each other about popes? > It’s always ok to call out those who abuse or protect abusers. I care not that my post got flagged. I’m glad of it. I feel a tiny bit like Sinead We're trying to avoid online callout/shaming culture on this site. It reliably leads to poor-quality discussion. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&type=comment&dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=online%20shaming%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&type=comment&dateRange=a... Generally, the state of high indignation (and its correlate, high moral justification) isn't congruent with the intended spirit of conversation here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html