5 ms·

Less than 5% of global usage [1], and no presence whatsoever on mobile. Pretty much dead. [1]: https://radar.cloudflare.com/adoption-and-usage https://radar.cl

by slig 3y ago

Less than 5% of global usage [1], and no presence whatsoever on mobile. Pretty much dead. [1]: https://radar.cloudflare.com/adoption-and-usage https://radar.cloudflare.com/adoption-and-usage And CF stats doesn't depend on JavaScript.

matkoniecz 3y ago
4% of global browser usage can be described in many ways (defeated, miserable, collapse compared to the past etc) but it definitely is not dead and is one of few developed browsers.
- solardev 3y ago
  If we're arguing about whether 4% global usage constitutes dead, then yes, it's truly dead and Mozilla is completely irrelevant. Even Microsoft is more important these days (again).
  - nequo 3y ago
    The difference between 0% and 5% is that at 0%, if you want an alternative, you have to write it yourself, but at 5%, the alternative exists. Mozilla is not dead. If you don’t like what Google is doing, don’t pretend that Firefox does not exist. Do something instead. File bug reports, send patches, donate to those who are working on Firefox and countering Google.
    - solardev 3y ago
      Frankly I trust Mozilla's governance even less than Google's. They took an amazing product (Phoenix) and mismanaged it into irrelevance. If there were a good browser run by a different nonprofit org, I would support that.
      - nequo 3y ago
        Even if you don't trust Mozilla, they cannot do what Google is already doing. Mozilla doesn't have nearly enough market power to force something like WEI down our throats.
  - matkoniecz 3y ago
    > If we're arguing about whether 4% global usage constitutes dead, then yes, it's truly dead I am posting from maintained Mozilla Firefox. That would be impossible if FF would be dead.
  - nobody9999 3y ago
    >If we're arguing about whether 4% global usage constitutes dead, then yes, it's truly dead and Mozilla is completely irrelevant. Even Microsoft is more important these days (again). According to these folks[0], Firefox has a 3.29% market share globally. They also claim there are 4.66 billion browser users globally. If those numbers are correct, Firefox has a bit more than 150,000,000 users worldwide. If my software had 150,000,000 users, I'd consider that wildly successful. Other folks have different ideas/takes on that, I suppose. But it's food for thought nonetheless. [0] https://backlinko.com/browser-market-share#worldwide-browser-share https://backlinko.com/browser-market-share#worldwide-browser... Edit: Fixed prose.
- jamiek88 3y ago
  For many years what is now macOS hovered around 3% usage. The phoenix can rise. The frozen chicken can not. Still breathing makes a huge difference.
  - solardev 3y ago
    Maybe if they replaced top Mozilla leadership. Apple had to reinvent itself back into relevance. Mozilla refuses to, and just keeps stagnating in a cesspool of rot and nostalgia. They're less a browser maker these days and more an ineffective think tank. I think Google keeps them around just as a "useful fool" so they can look less like a monopoly... Probably better for a different org with different leadership to start over. I wouldn't count on Mozilla to miraculously reinvent itself.
- slig 3y ago
  There's no plan, no growth, they don't have a mobile OS, and users will use whatever browser (aka, "the internet") comes with their device. On Windows, Edge is being heavily "promoted". Most of the technical people I know gave up, unfortunately.
  - derefr 3y ago
    Corporate + institutional mass installs on Windows and Linux — e.g. university computer labs — are still mostly Firefox. It's easier to lock down something that's not part of the OS; and it's easier to create a local-network roaming-user-profile experience that's seamless between the machines that must run Windows (regular labs) and the machines that must run Linux (CompSci labs.)
ConorSheehan1 3y ago
I'm writing this on firefox for android. It has 100M+ downloads on the play store.
- solardev 3y ago
  So does Opera...
- blitz_skull 3y ago
  Pretty sure download statistics don’t reflect usage. And are we even sure those are unique downloads? At any rate, 100M downloads across the lifetime of the app isn’t much to write home about when considering the billions (plural) that use Google products. Furthermore, there’s an entire class of people that think Chrome IS the internet. It’s wildly more common than the average HN would think.
squarefoot 3y ago
Linux market share on the desktop was 3.08% on June (source:0). I don't see it dying anytime soon because of that. Firefox isn't pushed by Google, hence the much smaller adoption; it's not about quality but rather which one is being advertised the most. 0: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide

by slig 3y ago

matkoniecz 3y ago

4% of global browser usage can be described in many ways (defeated, miserable, collapse compared to the past etc) but it definitely is not dead and is one of few developed browsers.

solardev 3y ago
If we're arguing about whether 4% global usage constitutes dead, then yes, it's truly dead and Mozilla is completely irrelevant. Even Microsoft is more important these days (again).
- nequo 3y ago
  The difference between 0% and 5% is that at 0%, if you want an alternative, you have to write it yourself, but at 5%, the alternative exists. Mozilla is not dead. If you don’t like what Google is doing, don’t pretend that Firefox does not exist. Do something instead. File bug reports, send patches, donate to those who are working on Firefox and countering Google.
  - solardev 3y ago
    Frankly I trust Mozilla's governance even less than Google's. They took an amazing product (Phoenix) and mismanaged it into irrelevance. If there were a good browser run by a different nonprofit org, I would support that.
    - nequo 3y ago
      Even if you don't trust Mozilla, they cannot do what Google is already doing. Mozilla doesn't have nearly enough market power to force something like WEI down our throats.
- matkoniecz 3y ago
  > If we're arguing about whether 4% global usage constitutes dead, then yes, it's truly dead I am posting from maintained Mozilla Firefox. That would be impossible if FF would be dead.
- nobody9999 3y ago
  >If we're arguing about whether 4% global usage constitutes dead, then yes, it's truly dead and Mozilla is completely irrelevant. Even Microsoft is more important these days (again). According to these folks[0], Firefox has a 3.29% market share globally. They also claim there are 4.66 billion browser users globally. If those numbers are correct, Firefox has a bit more than 150,000,000 users worldwide. If my software had 150,000,000 users, I'd consider that wildly successful. Other folks have different ideas/takes on that, I suppose. But it's food for thought nonetheless. [0] https://backlinko.com/browser-market-share#worldwide-browser-share https://backlinko.com/browser-market-share#worldwide-browser... Edit: Fixed prose.
jamiek88 3y ago
For many years what is now macOS hovered around 3% usage. The phoenix can rise. The frozen chicken can not. Still breathing makes a huge difference.
- solardev 3y ago
  Maybe if they replaced top Mozilla leadership. Apple had to reinvent itself back into relevance. Mozilla refuses to, and just keeps stagnating in a cesspool of rot and nostalgia. They're less a browser maker these days and more an ineffective think tank. I think Google keeps them around just as a "useful fool" so they can look less like a monopoly... Probably better for a different org with different leadership to start over. I wouldn't count on Mozilla to miraculously reinvent itself.
slig 3y ago
There's no plan, no growth, they don't have a mobile OS, and users will use whatever browser (aka, "the internet") comes with their device. On Windows, Edge is being heavily "promoted". Most of the technical people I know gave up, unfortunately.
- derefr 3y ago
  Corporate + institutional mass installs on Windows and Linux — e.g. university computer labs — are still mostly Firefox. It's easier to lock down something that's not part of the OS; and it's easier to create a local-network roaming-user-profile experience that's seamless between the machines that must run Windows (regular labs) and the machines that must run Linux (CompSci labs.)

ConorSheehan1 3y ago

I'm writing this on firefox for android. It has 100M+ downloads on the play store.

solardev 3y ago
So does Opera...
blitz_skull 3y ago
Pretty sure download statistics don’t reflect usage. And are we even sure those are unique downloads? At any rate, 100M downloads across the lifetime of the app isn’t much to write home about when considering the billions (plural) that use Google products. Furthermore, there’s an entire class of people that think Chrome IS the internet. It’s wildly more common than the average HN would think.

squarefoot 3y ago

Linux market share on the desktop was 3.08% on June (source:0). I don't see it dying anytime soon because of that. Firefox isn't pushed by Google, hence the much smaller adoption; it's not about quality but rather which one is being advertised the most. 0: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide