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Maximizing windows in their own workspace is annoying and one of the worst parts of macOS window management. I really hope they don't bother with that. Just bec

Maximizing windows in their own workspace is annoying and one of the worst parts of macOS window management. I really hope they don't bother with that. Just because I want a maximized window doesn't mean I want it in it's own workspace. It just makes dealing with windows harder because you now have to move to some other workspace to grab a window you want to reference first.

MobiusHorizons 3y ago
+1. This behavior is really confusing if you expect a particular window (typically a browser) to be on a particular workspace (I have keyboard shortcuts for the first 4 workspaces) and then it ends up off the end of the list because you happen to have been watching some content maximized.
stouset 3y ago
If you option-click the green button or double-click the window handle, it expands a window to fill the screen without making it full-screen on its own space.
- IshKebab 3y ago
  It's better than full screen, but it's not real maximised. In particular if you drag the right edge of the screen it will resize the window rather than moving the scrollbar. Honestly Windows has basically nailed window management (earning its name I guess). Mac is much worse and Gnome is a little worse.
Steltek 3y ago
macOS manages _apps_ not _windows_. macOS (or iOS) is the last place to look for insights into window management because it's not even speaking the same language. GNOME made this mistake a long time ago, trying to cargo cult (orig. definition) design their window management tools.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- rollcat 3y ago
  macOS manages both apps and windows. A lot of the things it does do make sense if you follow the original paradigm from the ground up. Unfortunately, most platforms copying ideas from macOS only do so from the surface, and the effect usually ends up half-assed. Want a good idea to copy? Ctrl-C in the terminal should copy text when something is selected, and send interrupt otherwise. In the macOS Terminal, you can rebind Copy from Cmd-C to Ctrl-C; when you do so, this is what happens. I will pledge my unending loyalty to the first terminal emulator on X11/Wayland that can implement this - I've tried over a dozen and none of them do.
ecliptik 3y ago
I ended up using Moom [1] to work around some of the oddities of macOS window management. It's relatively low-feature, mostly for window arrangements and sizing. I use it on a vertical monitor to split window placement horizontally, since macOS can only natively do vertical splits. It has other features too (like saving layouts and keyboard shortcuts), but I don't use them that much. 1. https://manytricks.com/moom/ https://manytricks.com/moom/
asoneth 3y ago
Personally I find switching between workspaces annoying, but not particularly more or less annoying than switching between maximized windows on Windows. So I am curious what you specifically find annoying about treating maximized windows as workspaces. (Also, note that you can hold the Option key and click on the green plus in the upper-left corner you will get the standard Windows maximize behavior, which macOS calls "Zoom". Even better, you can go to System Settings > Desktop & Dock > Double click a window's title bar to... and select "Zoom" to make this action even easier.)
- pxc 3y ago
  > you will get the standard Windows maximize behavior, which macOS calls "Zoom". No, no you won't. Because 'zoom' is not equivalent to maximization. It means something like 'make this window as big as the current contents it has open for viewing in each dimension, unless that's too big (and then just maximize it in that direction)'. Additionally it's just window resizing, not a window state. Which means that when you move the window again, it stays huge— so part of it must be offscreen— instead of snapping back to a reasonable unmaximized size. > So I am curious what you specifically find annoying about treating maximized windows as workspaces. I'm not GP, but - there's a big, stupid, slow animation that must play every time you switch between workspaces - you cannot float windows from other applications over a fullscreen window It adds unnecessary delays and distractions any time you want to use a different application on that screen, and it doesn't let you multitask on that screen.
  - asoneth 3y ago
    > 'zoom' is not equivalent to maximization Interesting, I tried a few windows that I don't normally "zoom" and you are right. I suppose prior to this I only ever attempted to perform this action on browser/document/messaging/media windows that are able to be fully maximized. > there's a big, stupid, slow animation that must play every time you switch between workspaces I wondered how I never noticed this, and it looks like I had Accessibility > Display > Reduce Motion enabled. > you cannot float windows from other applications over a fullscreen window Agreed, I found it handy the first time I discovered I could move a floating window over a maximized window in Windows, but I've also noticed that I let my windows become a lot more disorganized when I'm using Windows. I'm not saying they're related, it may be that I just don't have enough Windows experience, but I do find that I end up keeping my workspace a bit tidier on macOS or a tiling WM.
dbtc 3y ago
I like vlc, mpv, and alacritty because they can fullscreen without making a new 'workspace'. Haven't figured it out for emacs yet.
- philsnow 3y ago
  > Haven't figured it out for emacs yet. Up until today I'd been using (global-set-key (kbd "C-c RET") (lambda () (interactive) (set-frame-parameter nil 'fullscreen (when (not (frame-parameter nil 'fullscreen)) 'maximized)))) , which just makes the current frame maximized. A quick search turned up [0] which seems to give the desired effect of pre-lion "fullscreen" (hiding the menu bar and taking up 100% of the screen). I've tentatively switched to it for now, although I noticed some weirdness when I got a message saying that I could run M-x toggle-frame-fullscreen by pressing f11: when I hit globe-f11 the resulting frame/window configuration sometimes ends up being mostly black. When I use M-x toggle-frame-fullscreen, it doesn't have this behavior. [0] https://stackoverflow.com/a/20429390 https://stackoverflow.com/a/20429390
hiccuphippo 3y ago
One of the things I like about Windows 11 is when you tile 2 windows, they form a group in the alt-tab menu. That way you can keep using your regular workflow with the group without the need for another workspace.
subjectsigma 3y ago
Logged in just to say this is probably one of the only things I prefer about macOS window management, if you are reading this Apple UX team please don’t take it away!
dabber21 3y ago
I'm probably in the minority here, but I like that behavior
- plorkyeran 3y ago
  I like it on smaller laptops and despise it with large external monitors.

MobiusHorizons 3y ago

+1. This behavior is really confusing if you expect a particular window (typically a browser) to be on a particular workspace (I have keyboard shortcuts for the first 4 workspaces) and then it ends up off the end of the list because you happen to have been watching some content maximized.

stouset 3y ago

If you option-click the green button or double-click the window handle, it expands a window to fill the screen without making it full-screen on its own space.

IshKebab 3y ago
It's better than full screen, but it's not real maximised. In particular if you drag the right edge of the screen it will resize the window rather than moving the scrollbar. Honestly Windows has basically nailed window management (earning its name I guess). Mac is much worse and Gnome is a little worse.

Steltek 3y ago

macOS manages _apps_ not _windows_. macOS (or iOS) is the last place to look for insights into window management because it's not even speaking the same language. GNOME made this mistake a long time ago, trying to cargo cult (orig. definition) design their window management tools.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
rollcat 3y ago
macOS manages both apps and windows. A lot of the things it does do make sense if you follow the original paradigm from the ground up. Unfortunately, most platforms copying ideas from macOS only do so from the surface, and the effect usually ends up half-assed. Want a good idea to copy? Ctrl-C in the terminal should copy text when something is selected, and send interrupt otherwise. In the macOS Terminal, you can rebind Copy from Cmd-C to Ctrl-C; when you do so, this is what happens. I will pledge my unending loyalty to the first terminal emulator on X11/Wayland that can implement this - I've tried over a dozen and none of them do.

ecliptik 3y ago

I ended up using Moom [1] to work around some of the oddities of macOS window management. It's relatively low-feature, mostly for window arrangements and sizing. I use it on a vertical monitor to split window placement horizontally, since macOS can only natively do vertical splits. It has other features too (like saving layouts and keyboard shortcuts), but I don't use them that much. 1. https://manytricks.com/moom/ https://manytricks.com/moom/

asoneth 3y ago

Personally I find switching between workspaces annoying, but not particularly more or less annoying than switching between maximized windows on Windows. So I am curious what you specifically find annoying about treating maximized windows as workspaces. (Also, note that you can hold the Option key and click on the green plus in the upper-left corner you will get the standard Windows maximize behavior, which macOS calls "Zoom". Even better, you can go to System Settings > Desktop & Dock > Double click a window's title bar to... and select "Zoom" to make this action even easier.)

pxc 3y ago
> you will get the standard Windows maximize behavior, which macOS calls "Zoom". No, no you won't. Because 'zoom' is not equivalent to maximization. It means something like 'make this window as big as the current contents it has open for viewing in each dimension, unless that's too big (and then just maximize it in that direction)'. Additionally it's just window resizing, not a window state. Which means that when you move the window again, it stays huge— so part of it must be offscreen— instead of snapping back to a reasonable unmaximized size. > So I am curious what you specifically find annoying about treating maximized windows as workspaces. I'm not GP, but - there's a big, stupid, slow animation that must play every time you switch between workspaces - you cannot float windows from other applications over a fullscreen window It adds unnecessary delays and distractions any time you want to use a different application on that screen, and it doesn't let you multitask on that screen.
- asoneth 3y ago
  > 'zoom' is not equivalent to maximization Interesting, I tried a few windows that I don't normally "zoom" and you are right. I suppose prior to this I only ever attempted to perform this action on browser/document/messaging/media windows that are able to be fully maximized. > there's a big, stupid, slow animation that must play every time you switch between workspaces I wondered how I never noticed this, and it looks like I had Accessibility > Display > Reduce Motion enabled. > you cannot float windows from other applications over a fullscreen window Agreed, I found it handy the first time I discovered I could move a floating window over a maximized window in Windows, but I've also noticed that I let my windows become a lot more disorganized when I'm using Windows. I'm not saying they're related, it may be that I just don't have enough Windows experience, but I do find that I end up keeping my workspace a bit tidier on macOS or a tiling WM.

dbtc 3y ago

I like vlc, mpv, and alacritty because they can fullscreen without making a new 'workspace'. Haven't figured it out for emacs yet.

philsnow 3y ago
> Haven't figured it out for emacs yet. Up until today I'd been using (global-set-key (kbd "C-c RET") (lambda () (interactive) (set-frame-parameter nil 'fullscreen (when (not (frame-parameter nil 'fullscreen)) 'maximized)))) , which just makes the current frame maximized. A quick search turned up [0] which seems to give the desired effect of pre-lion "fullscreen" (hiding the menu bar and taking up 100% of the screen). I've tentatively switched to it for now, although I noticed some weirdness when I got a message saying that I could run M-x toggle-frame-fullscreen by pressing f11: when I hit globe-f11 the resulting frame/window configuration sometimes ends up being mostly black. When I use M-x toggle-frame-fullscreen, it doesn't have this behavior. [0] https://stackoverflow.com/a/20429390 https://stackoverflow.com/a/20429390

hiccuphippo 3y ago

One of the things I like about Windows 11 is when you tile 2 windows, they form a group in the alt-tab menu. That way you can keep using your regular workflow with the group without the need for another workspace.

subjectsigma 3y ago

Logged in just to say this is probably one of the only things I prefer about macOS window management, if you are reading this Apple UX team please don’t take it away!

dabber21 3y ago

I'm probably in the minority here, but I like that behavior

plorkyeran 3y ago
I like it on smaller laptops and despise it with large external monitors.