6 ms·

But we are talking about a car on a boat. Will your fire department be able to put out a lithium fire on a boat?

Nathanba 3y ago
also it's probably very hard to get to that individual car on the ship, unlike how it would be on a road
martin_a 3y ago
I guess the ferry will have firefighters onboard. They should be trained on how to handle car fires in general. They will then need some equipment to get EVs out of their parking position (forklift maybe?!?) and have some container ready to drop them into. It's a problem that can be solved with the right equipment.
- peteradio 3y ago
  Lol. I think you are overextending your hand here. You ever been on a ferry? You can't move the cars, they are completely packed like sardines.
  - martin_a 3y ago
    I know. And I think that tight packing is a problem. But it's also a problem with extinguishing "normal" car fires already, as fire can easily spread from one car to another, through heat radiation alone. The underlying problem should be fixed.
    - tsimionescu 3y ago
      I would wager a guess that ICE cars are not transported with any gasoline in their tanks, unlike electric cars.
      - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
        On a ferry? Of course they are transported with gasoline. The owners drive them on, then drive them off at the other side.
      - RosanaAnaDana 3y ago
        itt: Tell me you've no clue how a ferry works without telling me you've no clue how a ferry works.
      - krisoft 3y ago
        It seems you don't understand the concept of a ferry. It is like a bridge which moves with you. You drive on, the ferry departs and moves to some other location (other side of the river, other side of a lake) and you drive off. You can see the operation in this randomly selected video for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkKTyf_RAzk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkKTyf_RAzk ) ICE cars have gasoline in their tanks, because that is what they use to drive on the ferry and that is how they drive off the ferry.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- nradov 3y ago
  Come on, be serious. Civilian ferries don't carry dedicated firefighters. The crew receive some cursory training in basic firefighting every once in a while. They depend mainly on fixed firefighting systems that dispense CO2, suppressants, or water. It's impossible to operate a forklift on the tightly packed cargo deck of a ferry, especially while the space is filled with toxic smoke. Nor is there room onboard for a fire resistant container. It's hilarious how a bunch of software developers who have never spent any time at sea think they have all the answers.
  - martin_a 3y ago
    > The crew receive some cursory training in basic firefighting every once in a while. That is EXACTLY part of the problem. You put people with lots of flammable stuff under their asses on a ship in the middle of nowhere, with no help readily available, and hope that some sprinklers will be good enough to do the job. Don't you see a problem with that, that should be tackled?
    - nradov 3y ago
      I see all sorts of marine safety problems that could be tackled with sufficient resources. If you're an expert in this area then I would encourage you to work through your national authorities to propose further SOLAS amendments. They come up with new ones on a regular basis. https://www.dnv.com/news/what-s-new-with-solas-2024--227502 https://www.dnv.com/news/what-s-new-with-solas-2024--227502 The thing is that ferries are generally a low margin business so imposing a bunch of extra firefighting requirements will make some of them at the margins no longer economically viable. And fires aren't necessarily even the biggest risk: they also have to worry about collisions, loss of power, storms, navigational errors, cargo shifting, etc. Realistically I just don't think civilian crews can be expected to effectively fight major fires in 50KWh+ lithium battery packs. Instead they should focus on fast, safe evacuation; when there is significant loss of life due to shipboard fires it's usually because the crew waited too long to abandon ship and screwed up the lifeboat deployment. Once the people are off then just let the vessel burn, or perhaps let a skeleton crew try to put into a nearby harbor where fire boats with trained personnel can take over. It may also be practical to do something on the prevention front such as a quick visual inspection of EVs for obvious battery pack damage and dashboard warning lights. Or require packs to be discharged below 20% or whatever before boarding (passengers will complain about this).
- INTPenis 3y ago
  So as far as you view it, there is no heightened risk with EV fires in closed quarters on a ship at sea? They're all packed in tight, with gasoline cars and other EVs.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
raverbashing 3y ago
Will a fire department be able to put out a gasoline fire on a boat? A diesel fire on a boat? Chance are, electrical fires are much more self contained than gasoline fires

also it's probably very hard to get to that individual car on the ship, unlike how it would be on a road

I guess the ferry will have firefighters onboard. They should be trained on how to handle car fires in general. They will then need some equipment to get EVs out of their parking position (forklift maybe?!?) and have some container ready to drop them into. It's a problem that can be solved with the right equipment.

peteradio 3y ago
Lol. I think you are overextending your hand here. You ever been on a ferry? You can't move the cars, they are completely packed like sardines.
- martin_a 3y ago
  I know. And I think that tight packing is a problem. But it's also a problem with extinguishing "normal" car fires already, as fire can easily spread from one car to another, through heat radiation alone. The underlying problem should be fixed.
  - tsimionescu 3y ago
    I would wager a guess that ICE cars are not transported with any gasoline in their tanks, unlike electric cars.
    - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
      On a ferry? Of course they are transported with gasoline. The owners drive them on, then drive them off at the other side.
    - RosanaAnaDana 3y ago
      itt: Tell me you've no clue how a ferry works without telling me you've no clue how a ferry works.
    - krisoft 3y ago
      It seems you don't understand the concept of a ferry. It is like a bridge which moves with you. You drive on, the ferry departs and moves to some other location (other side of the river, other side of a lake) and you drive off. You can see the operation in this randomly selected video for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkKTyf_RAzk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkKTyf_RAzk ) ICE cars have gasoline in their tanks, because that is what they use to drive on the ferry and that is how they drive off the ferry.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nradov 3y ago
Come on, be serious. Civilian ferries don't carry dedicated firefighters. The crew receive some cursory training in basic firefighting every once in a while. They depend mainly on fixed firefighting systems that dispense CO2, suppressants, or water. It's impossible to operate a forklift on the tightly packed cargo deck of a ferry, especially while the space is filled with toxic smoke. Nor is there room onboard for a fire resistant container. It's hilarious how a bunch of software developers who have never spent any time at sea think they have all the answers.
- martin_a 3y ago
  > The crew receive some cursory training in basic firefighting every once in a while. That is EXACTLY part of the problem. You put people with lots of flammable stuff under their asses on a ship in the middle of nowhere, with no help readily available, and hope that some sprinklers will be good enough to do the job. Don't you see a problem with that, that should be tackled?
  - nradov 3y ago
    I see all sorts of marine safety problems that could be tackled with sufficient resources. If you're an expert in this area then I would encourage you to work through your national authorities to propose further SOLAS amendments. They come up with new ones on a regular basis. https://www.dnv.com/news/what-s-new-with-solas-2024--227502 https://www.dnv.com/news/what-s-new-with-solas-2024--227502 The thing is that ferries are generally a low margin business so imposing a bunch of extra firefighting requirements will make some of them at the margins no longer economically viable. And fires aren't necessarily even the biggest risk: they also have to worry about collisions, loss of power, storms, navigational errors, cargo shifting, etc. Realistically I just don't think civilian crews can be expected to effectively fight major fires in 50KWh+ lithium battery packs. Instead they should focus on fast, safe evacuation; when there is significant loss of life due to shipboard fires it's usually because the crew waited too long to abandon ship and screwed up the lifeboat deployment. Once the people are off then just let the vessel burn, or perhaps let a skeleton crew try to put into a nearby harbor where fire boats with trained personnel can take over. It may also be practical to do something on the prevention front such as a quick visual inspection of EVs for obvious battery pack damage and dashboard warning lights. Or require packs to be discharged below 20% or whatever before boarding (passengers will complain about this).
INTPenis 3y ago
So as far as you view it, there is no heightened risk with EV fires in closed quarters on a ship at sea? They're all packed in tight, with gasoline cars and other EVs.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

raverbashing 3y ago

Will a fire department be able to put out a gasoline fire on a boat? A diesel fire on a boat? Chance are, electrical fires are much more self contained than gasoline fires